Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Right Coast Ride on a Spagthorpe (Part 1) Summary: It was hidden behind the Aerostar Message-ID: <199207292239.AA10703@laverda.unx.sas.com> Date: 29 Jul 92 22:39:37 GMT Reply-To: sasmjw@unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Cary NC Lines: 181 Status: RO What, me cage to the RCR? Surely you must be mistaken, Ed! I know that a Ford Aerostar seemed to follow me around, and somehow my Spagthorpe was always parked the other side where you couldn't see, but *ME* drive a *VAN* to a *MOTORCYCLE* campground? Obviously you need to know The Rest Of The Story: The Scene: It is Friday, in a garage in Raleigh, NC. Someone be-decked in a neon green Aerostich suit with hot pink accent panels is bungying a six-pack of Newcastle Brown Ale to a piece of furniture. As we come closer, we see that it is not in fact furniture, but a motorcycle. The mistake is understandable: it is a Spagthorpe Wolfhound. I have always regretted that my father sold his old bike. The Spagthorpe Whippet is legendary among enthusiasts, of course, for its innovative engineering and inestimable character. I have been looking for another one ever since I was old enough to spell "bike" and have yet to see such a beast, although I have heard of several in various stages of restoration. I am blessed, however, with a stable of not one but several modern-era Spagthorpes, on one of which I would be attending the Right Coast Ride. Not many people are aware that the famous British marque was revived in 1981 when Julian, Lord Spagthorpe, inherited his title at the age of 24. A keen motorcyclist himself, he saw an opportunity to inject some character into what was becoming a rather bland industry, and started a manufacturing operation in Peter Tavy, Devonshire. His bikes have certainly been distinctive, from the first model of the Greyhound sportbike up until the present day. For the ride, I had selected the 1985 Spagthorpe Wolfhound. Aimed at the American market, it failed miserably owing to the lack of dealerships, although I understand from my friend "Bulldog" that it was fairly succesful in Zimbabwe. The concept was to build a long-distance cruiser, and the emphasis would be on low-end grunt and endurance rather than top speed. The obvious engine configuration was a V-twin, so it was decided to take the 347cc single from the Beagle, and join four of them on two meshed crakshafts to produce what would be known as the 1400 W-4, although the actual configuration was more like _|o|_, with the engine mounted longitudinally in the frame. The desmodromic valves only required adjustment every 3000 miles, but for all but the front cylinder even checking clearances involved removing the engine from the frame, along with the primary shaft which ran alongside the rear cylinder and drove the separate transmission. This complexity may have been what discouraged potential American dealers -- I can imagine Joe-Bob The Motorcycle Mechanic's reaction to such a task! -- but for the owners who persevered it was outweighed by the benefits of the machine. It had shaft drive, liquid cooling, disc brakes operated solely by the foot pedal with an ingenious "hydraulic computer" to handle balance, four-speed automatic overdrive transmission, and many luxuries not seen on bikes even today. Anyway, enough of the bike...on to the ride. Well, sort of ... in fact we had to start by going to Charlotte, where my wife Susan would be overseeing the operation of the Timing and Scoring computers. The computers would travel down in our Aerostar (oh! *that* must be where you heard "Aerostar," Ed!), and Susan would stay in Charlotte for the weekend while I trogged off into the Blue Ridge. The trip from Raleigh to Charlotte was uneventful, so I'll spare you that. We unloaded the computers at the speedway, and toodled off to the motel where we collapsed for the night after a couple of beers. On Saturday, we woke bright and early (well, early, anyway) only to find that the van had lost 15psi in the left rear overnight. We'd seen this failure mode before, on the front then, where a tyre just lost pressure quickly with no visible damage. Anyway, the solution would be to buy two new tyres. Ugh. Susan *had* to be at the track, so we went anyway, hoping the 20psi would hold for long enough to get there at the 30-40mph we felt was about as fast as we could take it safely. It held. We got there. Both of us started work right away on entering the data on the cars and drivers, and as soon as that was complete I took on the unenviable task of finding tyres in an unfamiliar town. I pulled the van over to the Bridgestone truck, topped up the air, and left the speedway for a tour of the Queen City. Western Auto: no Michelin XH4's in stock in that size, but the computer shows two of their other locations do. Call them: they don't, not in that size, sir. Pep Boys: XA4's but no XH4's. Make mental note and go on. Into Charlotte: pass Goodyear, Bridgestone, Yokohama, Firestone, General. No Michelin. Discover am leaving Charlotte. Turn round. Return to Charlotte. By a weird streak of luck, I find I am in the real downtown area at the intersection of Independence Blvd and 3rd Street. This is lucky, because here is Kirby-Kale Tires. They don't have what I want, either, but one phone call later the nice lady has found them at another place and her husband is off in his car to collect them. Marvellous place -- the sort of place that has the owners' home phone numbers on the door in case you need them when they're closed. To make a long (and hot) story short, I get the tyres (at a much more reasonable price then I expected for a small business), and return to the track. Say "Hi" to Susan, tell her I'm off to the mountains, a mere 3-4 hours behind my schedule. Oh well, at least I'm on the way now, and this is where the tale of the RCR begins in earnest... The Spagthorpe, of course, had been sitting in the sun since early morning, but fortunately the seat is not black but tan, and was still tolerable even though it was now well into the heat of the day. I thumbed the starter, and was greeted with the unique rumble of the W4 as it sprang into life at the first try -- fortunately good old Julian didn't believe in Lucas electronics, and had gone to Bosch for the wiring for his bikes, and for electronic ignition. I certainly was glad I didn't have to try to kick-start the beast in this heat. I retracted the electric/hydraulic centrestand, hooked the selector into Reverse, and eased the bike around carefully. The Wolfhound is well known for it's tendency to drop suddenly and unpredictably while reversing, and it is best to keep one's left foot on the ground through the manoeuvre -- the right foot, of course, is operating the only brake lever. If you've never tried to keep a Wolfhound upright while backing uphill, well, let me just say it's an interesting experience. The time had come to leave. Slipping the selector into Drive, I eased on the throttle and rumbled out of the speedway onto NC-49. The plan was to take 49 to I-85, then pick up Route 16 going north through Newton, Conover, Taylorsville, and thence North Wilkesboro to pick up 421, from which I had directions to the campground already tucked into the map pocket of the fairing. 49 is boring. I-85 is boring. Fortunately, before long I had turned off onto 16, which started out thoroughly unpromising but improved rapidly. Route 16 is full of small towns with low speed limits, and there was not much traffic but what there was crawled along and turned off quickly. At these speeds the Wolfhound loped along easily, always ready for a quick roll-on to pass a recalcitrant cager. The scenery passed by with plenty of time to enjoy it, the fairing deflected the air around me forming a quiet calm pocket, and when I switched on the air conditioning I might almost have thought I was in an Aerostar or something. Eat your heart out, GoldWingers! After a short stop for fuel and a co-cola, I managed to follow 16 through Newton and Conover -- not a trivial matter -- and rolled into Taylorsville. The road had been getting more interesting as I approached the mountains, and the scenery had improved greatly by then -- but this is where life in general started to get really exciting. As I rode past an Amoco station, I saw a Harley and a sidecar rig pulled over behind a Geo Metro. Not too unusual, but wait a minute! That was a *Virago* with the sidecar. Aha! That's a Denizen for sure! I made a quick U-turn and pulled into the parking lot. Closer examination of the bikes showed that they had Alabama plates, and the combination even had a DoD licence plate frame! Virago, sidecar, DoD -- must be TheMoped! Just then the bikers emerged from the convenience store, and started towards their rides. "Hi!" I said, "I only know one person with a Virago with a sidecar." "And who's that?" asked one of the ladies, suspiciously. "Amy Swint." "Well, that's me," she said with a bright smile, "And this is my husband Swane, and this is Hilary. What are you riding?" "Oh just that thing," I said, waving my hand in the direction of the Spagthorpe, but someone had parked a Ford Aerostar in the way and so all they saw was the van. So, it was about 1:30 on Saturday, and four RCR people had met on the road. You know, it's really neat when you can just introduce yourself to someone you've never met before, but you know they'll be interesting fun people, with interesting opinions. I like this. They had been following 18 from the west, but there had been a detour onto 16. Amy was planning to take 16 until they could pick up on 18 again, then take that and follow the directions to the campground from there. She seemed confident, so it seemed reasonable to let her lead. She did warn me she was fairly slow, and that her speedometer cable wasn't working, but I saw no problem with that. The worst that could happen is we get lost, and in this countryside and these roads that would be no hardship. Amy started up TheMoped, Shane climbed on his Springer Softail, and Hilary fired up the Geo convertible. I walked over to the Wolfhound, and took off after the three up the road. My first group ride with rec.motoists had begun. [to be continued] Martyn --------------sasmjw@unx.sas.com----(Martyn Wheeler)----DoD #293-------------- SAS Institute, Inc: (919) 677-8000 ext.7954 H: (919) 839-0092 (Raleigh, NC) For sale: Autodynamics Formula Vee: $2500 obo "If you spin, you deserve to die" -- Mike Hawthorn Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Right Coast Ride on a Spagthorpe (Part 2) Summary: We went slower, and slower, and slower... Message-ID: <199208031853.AA14416@laverda.unx.sas.com> Date: 3 Aug 92 18:53:34 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Reply-To: sasmjw@unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Cary NC Lines: 153 By the end of part 1 we had merged two groups of Denizens into one, and this group was heading north on Rt.16. Amy Swint was leading on TheMoped, her husband Swane was following on the Springer Softail, Hilary Perkins was next in line in a Geo Metro Convertible, and I was bringing up the rear on the Spagthorpe Wolfhound, except that some idiot in a Ford Aerostar was right behind us and I'm sure every time Hilary looked in her mirrors all she saw was the van. About half a mile out of the Amoco in Taylorsville, I realised that Amy had been right. She was slow. Some of this could be attributed to the lack of a speedometer (how I love it when a Spagthorpe is more reliable than a Yamaha!), some of it to the scenery and the interesting road, and some of it to Amy being slow. :-) The speed really didn't matter, though Swane was swinging from side to side rather impatiently every time the road became twisty. The further north we went, the twistier it became, and signs of civilisation were left behind us to be replaced by fields, based around small rivers gouging their way through steep valleys. Frequently the road would be lined with tall banks of dirt with sparse grass clinging to a bare existence, and we would lose sight of the landscape for a while only to find it was even more spectacular when the view cleared around the next corner. We arrived at the intersection with Route 18, and Amy swung onto it, apparently ignoring the sign that said: ROAD CLOSED MILES AHEAD LOCAL TRAFFIC ONLY We all hoped that " miles ahead" meant "many miles ahead" and followed her with only a little hesitation. I saw Swane glance at the sign with a some trepidation. Our progress slowed once we were on Rt.18. The countryside was magnificent, and the houses were more infrequent -- it was no longer certain that the river valleys were indeed being farmed. The road itself twisted left and right, climbed hills, dived into valleys, and became everything one could desire for a gentle cruise on a bike. The main reason we slowed was that our leader slowed. The road was winding enough now that TheMoped apparently wanted to take things easy. For left-hand turns, Amy Slowed, but having the chair to help in cornering; Swane looked impatient. For right-hand turns, Amy *SLOWED*, not really wanting to lift the chair and be the first to dump a bike on the RCR; Swane looked impatient but more sympathetic. I can understand Amy's caution: imagine the arrival at the campground: "Hey folks," we would say, "someone dropped their bike already!" The assembled denizens would crowd around... Was that a scratch on the perfect chrome of the Springer? No. Was the left mirror on the Spagthorpe a little out of line? Yes, but it came from the factory that way (bikes for a drive-on-the-left country had them asymmetrical the other way). Perhaps, ha ha, the Geo Metro had blown over? NOT! Hold on, Daughters of Democracy, what is this we see here? A bent footpeg, cracked mirror, dented tank -- but surely not? A three-wheeled vehicle is the most stable of all, and Amy *dropped* it? The postings would rise to 400 a day, as she was berated on rec.moto... Let add right now, so that Amy does not get a reputation like Tom Barber, AMY IS THE PERSON WHO DID NOT DROP A SIDECAR RIG ON THE RCR! So we understood her slow progress. Anyway, it gave us more time to look at the scenery... I was beginning to regret my choice of the Wolfhound for these roads. Although a very fine motorcycle, I must admit that when Julian, Lord Spagthorpe, visualised a bike for the American market he did not have in mind small twisting goat-trails over steep hills. Between first and second gears, the shift is somewhat jerky, and more and more often the automatic was deciding to do this while leaned over in a turn. A much better choice for this section of the ride would have been a late-model Doberman (not that any were imported into the US, I believe) -- that particular model was test-ridden frequently on the tight roads around the Peter Tavy facility, I gather; according to Roger, an ex-neighbour of mine who was in the CID, the West Devon Constabulary had become accustomed to the exhaust note, and made a practice of looking somewhere else while the prototype, often with Julian himself in the saddle, flew past them at quite unbelievable speeds. Ah, well, back to reality. I was not on a Spagthorpe Doberman, and the Wolfhound beneath me was making it quite plain it Was Not Built For This. I switched off the air conditioning, which was not really needed in the cooler mountain air, and that helped greatly as without having to strain against the accessory drive, the beast would now mostly stay in second, and the only real problem was manoeuvring the sheer bulk around the tight spots. I could still have gone faster than Amy, though... :-) So, on and on and on we went, enjoying the scenery, occasionally meeting a ratty-looking pickup coming the other way at high speed, apparently happy to run two wheels in the dirt to avoid having to slow down...strange, but courteous -- they always gave us plenty of room. Eventually, Beaver Creek Road appeared on our right. Amy slowed down, turned onto it, and pulled over, fumbling at the directions. Having checked the next stage of the trip, she pulled back on the tarmac, and we headed down what can only be described as an awesome road. Almost any road in rural North Carolina that has a body of water in the name is interesting. So we have Johnson Pond Road, West Lake Road, Sunset Lake Road, and now to add to these, the finest of them all: Beaver Creek Road. Many of those who came from the North and East did not travel this way, and missed out on the experience. I just can't do justice to it in words. Even Amy sped up around the left handers, especially the high-bank 270 degree downhill sweeper. We did our best to keep up -- although Swane was a master of the Springer and stayed close on TheMoped's tail, Hilary's Geo and my Wolfhound were a little farther behind. (I was, to be honest, finding the Spagthorpe's long wheelbase a real pain.) Fortunately the right-handers were followed almost invariably by left-handers, and for these it seemed that the method for cornering TheMoped was to stop, look around, ease gently around in first gear, then accelerate slowly. It was at this point that Amy did not drop a sidecar rig on the RCR. Over the course of the road, it must be said that the two largest vehicles did not exactly fall behind. All too soon Beaver Creek Road ended (although later Amy was to say on several occasions that the road was sheer hell) and we took a short mile hop on Rt.268 to Mount Pleasant Road. This was again full of twisties, although not as fun as Beaver Creek, but was also full of gravel in strange and unexpected places -- one of the beauties of Beaver Creek Road had been the cleanliness of the surface. Swane was quite clearly bored. Once we turned, he passed TheMoped and sped off to enjoy the bends. We followed at TheMoped's pace, and would always find the Springer Softail waiting another half-mile or so down the road. At the intersection with Mount Zion Road, we found Swane waiting again. As soon as he saw we had made the turning, he took off into the distance, using enough throttle for me to hear the pounding of the Big Twin over the rumble of the W4 beneath me (a full 48cc larger than the Harley!). We followed on as before. Mt Zion Rd was quite different from the previous roads, it seemed to me. A lot of the time it followed the floor of a river valley, although rising and falling across promontaries. There was a more personal feeling to the landscape, as if we were more part of it than the sight-seers we had been before. The pace no longer seemed slow, as we took time to feel the land around us. Finally, Swane waited for us as Mt Zion Rd changed from paved to dirt. We all took it easy at this point, and with a great deal of caution (and a sense of relief) arrived at the High Country Cycle camp at about 3 o'clock or so. [to be continued...I would guess part 3 will be the last] Martyn --------------sasmjw@unx.sas.com----(Martyn Wheeler)----DoD #293-------------- SAS Institute, Inc: (919) 677-8000 ext.7954 H: (919) 839-0092 (Raleigh, NC) For sale: Autodynamics Formula Vee: $2500 obo Guzzisti without a Goose. Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Wanted: Parts for Spagthorpe Werewolf (yes, THAT, Werewolf) Summary: Long-lost land-speed record-attempter found at last... Keywords: Spooge, Spagthorpe, Chronometer Controversy Message-ID: <1992Aug5.024342.26969@vuse.vanderbilt.edu> Date: 5 Aug 92 02:43:42 GMT Sender: news@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (News Manager) Organization: Vanderbilt University School of Engineering, Nashville, TN, USA Lines: 35 Originator: dab@space0 Nntp-Posting-Host: space0 For those who have forgotten, or never knew, in the weeks that followed the ill-famed Bonneville disaster, things did not go well for Lord Julian Spagthorpe. Edmond Fitzgerald, Peer of the Realm, Duke of Dunderwood, and Jule's best mate resigned from the effort shortly after the Chronometer Controversy stating simply, "They don't pay me enough to ride that thing, Old Chap." The bike was to be returned to England via shipboard. But through some as-yet-undetermined means, the Werewolf, the ONLY Werewolf, fell overboard while traversing Lake Superior. It was thought to be lost forever. Coincident with the discovery of the Edmund Fitzgerald (no relation), as chronicled on a National Geographic teevee special, the crate containing the Werewolf was salvaged. Through a rather circuitous route, it has come into the possession of a friend of mine (who MAY have traded some of his Argentine Vincents for it, but can't pass up a "deal" when he sees one). At any rate, the Werewolf, Land Speed Record Attempter, was the high performance version of the Wolfhound. Few photographs remain. Needed are: the chronometer (of course), right footpeg assembly parts #RFP14 - #RFP29, and ALL of the nuts and bolts for the left side of the bike (Whitworth left hand thread). It seems that the chronometer was destroyed in the original "incident," the footpeg assembly damaged by the grappling hook during recovery from the lakebed (see the PBS special), and the hardware by some chowderhead that can't tell Whitworth from Woolworth intoning, "Lefty loosey, righty tighty," as he destroyed all of the "wrong side of the Atlantic, wrong side of the road, wrong side of the bike" hardware with standard and metric wrenches. Some Spagthorpe Poodle bolts and peg assembly pieces will also fit, I am told. Email replies only, please. We wouldn't want this to get out. For those interested, most of the engine internals are interchangable with early AMC Nash Metropolitan parts, and much of the gearbox is Wilson pre-select. ============================================================================ "No hour of life is lost that is spent in the saddle." - Julian Spagthorpe The Nashville Flash - dab@vuse.vanderbilt.edu - DoD # 412 Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: Wanted: Parts for Spagthorpe Werewolf (yes, THAT, Werewolf) Keywords: Spooge, Spagthorpe, Chronometer Controversy Message-ID: Date: 5 Aug 92 15:11:41 GMT References: <1992Aug5.024342.26969@vuse.vanderbilt.edu> Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin Lines: 60 NNTP-Posting-Host: thunderbird.cs.utexas.edu In article <1992Aug5.024342.26969@vuse.vanderbilt.edu> dab@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (The Nashville Flash) writes: >Spagthorpe. Edmond Fitzgerald, Peer of the Realm, Duke of Dunderwood, and >Jule's best mate resigned from the effort shortly after the Chronometer >Controversy stating simply, "They don't pay me enough to ride that thing, There's a lot of myth surrounding Sir Fitzgerald's departure, but the real story is the sort of thing that could only happen when European aristocracy has a mind to take decisions on modern technology. The problem, as I understand it, stems from the use of a pre-war attempt to rationalize the Whitworth measurment scheme by decimalizing in terms of furlongs. When Lord Julian attempted to adopt this after the war for the UK market (hence the differnece between the various Terriers), the Chronometer, for compatibility, was to be similarly decimalized in terms of fortnights. Speed would then be determined by how many bolts fell out per unit time and would be measured (of course) in furlongs per fortnight. One of Lord Julian's top engineers, however, was a Jewish refugee from Germany. Chiam Pishtah, while a brilliant designer in his own right, was really too much of a prima-donna to work on an international design team and insisted, for religious reasons, on using cubits per moon. The chronometer he fabricated for the Werewolf, while a marvel of engineering at the time (it had, among other innovations, an unlimited-slip, bevel-gear differential linkage), was an offense to British sensibilities and was also virtually impossible to calibrate against existing speed records. I discovered some of Pishtah's notes lining a hamster cage in Currey Mallet, Somerset (and thereby hangs a tale as well). Subsequent searching at the pub where these notes were found revealed quite a few design documents on much of the Spagthorpe line. I would be happy to share these with any other enthusiasts; send me email. >through some as-yet-undetermined means, the Werewolf, the ONLY Werewolf, >fell overboard while traversing Lake Superior. It was thought to be lost The circumstances surrounding this incident are extremely mysterious, but apparently had something to do with a storm warning, a bottle of Alsatian wine, and a near-mutiny during the dog-watch. Does anyone know the real story? >and ALL of the nuts and bolts for the left side of the bike (Whitworth left >hand thread). It seems that the chronometer was destroyed in the original Right. This was part of the rationalization attempt. One experimental version had a dual-die, dual-tapping system where bolts could actually be tightened in either direction. >Some Spagthorpe Poodle bolts and peg assembly pieces will also fit, I am Careful on that. The later Poodles alternated right and left hand threads on both sides of the bike. By the way, I have a line on a restorable Poodle. Does anyone know where I can get the water guards for the front fork and rear suspension? It's sort of a steel wool assembly that's meant to trap water without increasing wind resistance. Take care, brad "No hour of life spent riding to the hounds is ever wasted." -- Lord Julian Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: Wanted: Parts for Spagthorpe Werewolf (yes, THAT, Werewolf) Message-ID: <1992Aug6.005042.14454@tcsi.com> Date: 6 Aug 92 00:50:42 GMT Sender: news@tcsi.com Organization: Teknekron Communications Inc. Lines: 26 Originator: markk@rigel brad@cs.utexas.edu (Brad Blumenthal) writes: >dab@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (The Nashville Flash) writes: >>and ALL of the nuts and bolts for the left side of the bike (Whitworth left >>hand thread). It seems that the chronometer was destroyed in the original >Right. This was part of the rationalization attempt. One experimental >version had a dual-die, dual-tapping system where bolts could actually >be tightened in either direction. Neither the dual-die, dual-tapping system and Chiam Pishtah's patented "Constant Torque Fastener" made it into production. The "Constant Torque Fastener" consisted of a bolt with a hole drilled through it. The outer threads were left hand thread while the hole was threaded right hand. The mating nut and the bolt would be both loosened and tightened with a turn of either in any direction maintaining a constant preload. This system was intended for use on axles and other bearings eliminating the need for cotter pins and the like. Both ideas were scrapped when it was realized that the oxy/acetylene "spanner" used to remove these bolts would not fit in the tool bag. - )V(ark)< [markk@tcs.com TCSI, Berkeley, CA USA] Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: Wanted: Parts for Spagthorpe Werewolf (yes, THAT, Werewolf) Message-ID: <1992Aug5.134638.29096@ncar.ucar.edu> Date: 5 Aug 92 13:46:38 GMT References: <1992Aug5.024342.26969@vuse.vanderbilt.edu> Sender: news@ncar.ucar.edu (USENET Maintenance) Organization: Scientific Computing Division/NCAR Boulder, CO Lines: 25 >From article <1992Aug5.024342.26969@vuse.vanderbilt.edu>, by dab@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (The Nashville Flash): > Some Spagthorpe Poodle bolts and peg assembly pieces will also fit It is only vaguely possible that my late Uncle Crighton's Spagthorpe "Terrier" has parts still usable condition. (This was the model, if you recall, without the sidecar). I doubt that the Terrier and the Werewolf have interchangable parts -- Uncle Crighton used to always say that you couldn't even depend upon interchanging parts between Terriers of the same model year -- but I can write my cousin Poindexter and find out. I'm afraid all I have to go by is my Uncle's handwritten notes and some old yellowed Spagthorpe ads he saved in a scrapbook. The owners manual and the shop manual (if there ever was one) have been lost somewhere at Uncle Crighton's farm (I've always suspected that they joined the Sears catalog, before Poindexter had indoor plumbing installed; Poindexter, that heathen, never appreciated motorcycling the way Crighton and I did; still, Poindexter inherited the farm). Sorry I can't be of more help. -- John Sloan "Since I've given up hope, +1 303 497 1243 NCAR/SCD I feel much better." Fax +1 303 497 1137 Boulder CO 80307-3000 USA jsloan@ncar.ucar.edu Logical Disclaimer: belong(opinions,jsloan). belong(opinions,_):-!,fail. Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: Wanted: Parts for Spagthorpe Werewolf (yes, THAT, Werewolf) Message-ID: <1992Aug5.164646.26048@colorado.edu> Date: 5 Aug 92 16:46:46 GMT References: <1992Aug5.024342.26969@vuse.vanderbilt.edu> <1992Aug5.134638.29096@ncar.ucar.edu> Sender: news@colorado.edu (The Daily Planet) Organization: JILA, University of Colorado at Boulder Lines: 21 Originator: matthews@ajsh Nntp-Posting-Host: ajsh.colorado.edu Thanks to all the people who sent me cordial email pointing out the error in my previous post. The 1623cc Spagthorpe I mentioned was of course the Mastiff, not the Great Dane as I so embarassingly said the first time around. The Great Dane was a prototype that collapsed under its own weight during centerstand testing at the Dunraven Proving Grounds, with the loss of all hands. The project was abandoned soon after, and the engineering records destroyed when the administrative offices were burned during the labor unrest that marked the venture's final years. Like pieces of the True Cross, parts of that Great Dane surface in estate auctions and bankruptcy proceedings all over the civilized world; but, like their religious counterpart, they are too large and too numerous to be parts of the original bike. And the lack of engineering drawings has been a thorn in the side of motorcycle historians for years. Those of us who eagerly await a "second coming" of the Spagthorpe will probably never know the rapture of laying eyes on Julian's one missing creation. -- -Alex Matthews (matthews@ajsh.colorado.edu) DoD #0010 "It's too pure, too unrefined." - Lance Holst, August '91 Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: Wanted: Parts for Spagthorpe Werewolf (yes, THAT, Werewolf) Message-ID: <1992Aug05.154419.24118@bnr.uk> Date: 5 Aug 92 15:44:19 GMT References: <1992Aug5.134638.29096@ncar.ucar.edu> Sender: news@bnr.uk (News Administrator) Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, Maidenhead, UK Lines: 82 Nntp-Posting-Host: bmdhh27 X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4 It's funny that you should ask. My late Grandfather's Sister-in-law was one of the factory testers for dear old Julian Spagthorpe's Father. She and him had quite a crush on one another, so I am told by my Uncle Bob. Of course, they were both married and in those days you just didn't do _that_ sort of thing, and nobody knew about it but my Uncle came across some old love-letters hidden in an old Wilchester portmanteau that he had inherited from her which gave away their guilty secret. It seems that she donated five of her own personal machines (gifts from Julian's Father, of course) to the Home Guard who had them painted in camoufluage greens and installed MG mounts and headlight filters because of the blackouts. Two of them were fitted with Swallow sidecars and short-wave radios and and were used usually for the rapid transport of senior defence coordination staff from bunker to bunker. One of these machines was hit by a stray bomb from a Messerschmitt 110 returning from a strafing run over the nearby RADAR development works in Pudleby-On-The-Marsh. The bike, rider and CDR Finchley GC, VC+bar, carrying the details and one of the latest watercooled Klystron valves were all blown apart by the blast. (A small stone cross by the side of the B403 marks the site still. The Klystron, wrapped first in leather, coddled tightly between two well-worn cricketing boxes and placed inside a metal case fashioned from a Panther Sloper's Piston, managed to survive the blast and helped to save the war. (Winston Churchill later gave it to the Americans when the secret of RADAR was handed over to them so that they could give us a hand or two.)) The other three were ridden by the Home Guard Dispatch Corps. A hardy collection of mainly ex-works racers who were all over the age of sixty. They used to race back and forth with army despatches even in the thickest of air raids. Often they were sent on long journeys, to Scotland, North Wales etc. It was quite normal for them to run out of petrol and have to substitute any suitable substance in order to get them to the nearest army camp: whisky, paraffin, diesel/meths being a few of these. Thank goodness we're riding Spagthorpes they would exhort. No other marque could take the kind of punishment that these blokes could give them in the name of King and Country. The automatic gearbox meant that they could ride along holding a rifle at the same time and the heating (no air conditioning in those days) kept the riders warm on those long lonely rides across bleak moors, lonely hills, deserted dales, isolated Scottish and Welsh mountains and the ghostly flatlands towards the east coast. Three of these machines survived the war and now form part of my twice removed cousin Adrian's collection at Trent Hall in Long Eaton. I know that he has a large collection of spares as he is a fan of Spagthorpes and other W4 motorcycles such as the Drake-Severn and the Malvern Tug4W series. (Some of the parts ARE interchangeable as the Vintage restorers at the hall often have to swap and match in order to get the machines ready for various rallies around The Isles. I think that they have displayed at Beaulieu as of late.) Lord Adrian has about seven of the latest Spagthorpes along with about five crates of spares so that he can pass on the machines to his heirs as working and maintainable motorcycles. (Along with the Heskeths and Silks). He also is able to get spare parts made as he has a small but serviceable machine-shop in one of the unused stables - recently they produced a con-rod for the little- known 1932 Rolls-Royce Flat-four 1800cc motorcycle tourer. Rolls produced eighteen of these magnificent, albeit a trifle unweildly, machines as a bit of an experiment in the early thirties when motorcycling was particularly fashionable amongst the upper echelons of the Empire. Their downfall was that they were too quiet and motorists could not hear them; after the Princess Tattia of India was killed by an army lorry in Bombay, Rolls withdrew them and because of various management changes never went back to producing motorcycles again. Anyway, I digress, I think I might be able to help you out with some of the spares and certainly with the Whitworth left-habded thread nuts and bolts. Also the spanners. Over here, we mainly use Whitworth threads, we get imported machinery converted in special sheds at the dockside. This is one of the reasons why foreign spare parts such as BMW and Harley parts are so expensive over here, they all have to be converted. Lord Adrian takes part in some rallies and runs, often within the auspices of the All Party Parliamentary Motorcycle Club of which he was Technical Secretary. I have a photograph with him on a Spagthorpe (a Wolfhound, I believe) at the front of a large number of machines ridden by the afore- mentioned APPMC with the Lord Chief Justice as his pillion wearing cricketing leg shields and with a Harrods Picnic Hamper strapped to the rear carrier; quite a sight! I will send him a telegraph, if you like, with your request for the spare parts you require. Nick (the Biker) DoD 1069 M'lud. Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: Wanted: Parts for Spagthorpe Werewolf (yes, THAT, Werewolf) Message-ID: <1992Aug5.191805.11374@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> Date: 5 Aug 92 19:18:05 GMT References: <1992Aug5.134638.29096@ncar.ucar.edu> <1992Aug05.154419.24118@bnr.uk> Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU Distribution: usa Organization: University of Virginia Lines: 23 In article <1992Aug05.154419.24118@bnr.uk> datasbld@bnr.ca (Datasbuild) writes: >I have a photograph with him on a Spagthorpe (a Wolfhound, I >believe) at the front of a large number of machines ridden by the afore- >mentioned APPMC i waited eagerly for this photograph to return from the developers, but for naught: early prototype testing of the ford (of europe) aerostar minivan was apparently in progress at this time, for one of the testpilots chanced to drive by milord and his venerable Wolfhound just as the frame was snapped. eerily, the disembodied head of julian, lord spagthorpe, appears through the window of the van, giving the impression -- by the photo, at any rate -- that he is driving an automobile. in the distant background, the hazy outline of a bp station is barely discernable. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Cliff Weston '92 Seca II (Tem) | | DoD# 0598 [insert witty disclaimer here] | | | | "I love your post. Please don't stop." -- Lissa Shoun | | | | it is by far the best (apart from this fine organ, of course) -- Nick | ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: Right Coast Ride on a Spagthorpe (Part 2) Message-ID: <1992Aug05.234441.19769@microsoft.com> Date: 5 Aug 92 23:44:41 GMT References: <199208031853.AA14416@laverda.unx.sas.com> <0eTdC=y00WBK81uWgt@andrew.cmu.edu> Organization: Microsoft Corporation Lines: 23 >>in a turn. A much better choice for this section of the ride would >>have been a late-model Doberman (not that any were imported into the >>US, I believe) -- that particular model was test-ridden frequently on > >Um, according to Lord Julian Spagthorpe's autobiography, _Dog Tyred_, >I believe 13 Spagthorpe Dobermans were actually imported between 1953 >and 1947. They were marketed in the US as the Spagthorpe Poodle which >may have had something to do with their obscurity. > >Take care, >brad Um, Brad, I can't believe you made this error. Martyn was not refering to the original Doberman, but to the latter-day Doberman produced by the Spagthorpe after Julian revived the marque in 1981. These late model Dobermans were powered by a supercharged two-stroke inline triple of 412 cm^3 displacement, and as you might imagine, they did have a rather extraodinary engine note. Spagthorpe had plans for a "street scrambler" dual-purpose version of the Doberman, but these were shelved during a factory reorganization ca. 1984. - Warren Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: Right Coast Ride on a Spagthorpe (Part 2) Message-ID: Date: 6 Aug 92 03:17:26 GMT References: <199208031853.AA14416@laverda.unx.sas.com> <0eTdC=y00WBK81uWgt@andrew.cmu.edu> <1992Aug05.234441.19769@microsoft.com> Sender: news@news.dfrf.nasa.gov (Usenet news) Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal. Lines: 48 In-Reply-To: warrenma@microsoft.com's message of 05 Aug 92 23:44:41 GMT On 05 Aug 92 23:44:41 GMT, warrenma@microsoft.com (Warren Marts) said: WM> Um, Brad, I can't believe you made this error. Martyn was not refering WM> to the original Doberman, but to the latter-day Doberman produced by the WM> Spagthorpe after Julian revived the marque in 1981. WM> These late model Dobermans were powered by a supercharged two-stroke WM> inline triple of 412 cm^3 displacement, and as you might imagine, they WM> did have a rather extraodinary engine note. Spagthorpe had plans WM> for a "street scrambler" dual-purpose version of the Doberman, but WM> these were shelved during a factory reorganization ca. 1984. I believe that there was another dual-purpose version of the Doberman that seems to have escaped everyone's notice. Perhaps no one else is as interested in aircraft as am I? Anyway, it's none the less interesting for being obscure. This version had a airplane conversion kit. I believe it was known as the Bird Dog, but that book is packed in a carton at the absolute bottom of the stack off 44 cartons and I'm not going to look for it. As I remember, this Bird Dog was a canard airplane. It had winglets and twin verticals (on booms, of course). It had a very high aspect ratio and was quite a nice-looking plane. The aerodynamic surfaces were attached by a special system that the book describes, succinctly, as indescribable. (Obviously the author had not done as much research as wreck.moto posters have.) The propellor was a rubberbandfan, with belt drive. I believe that the first high speed taxi test ended badly when the test pilot, Julian, leaned a little too far and dragged a wing tip. In his surprise, he overcontrolled and slammed the other tip down, managing to hook the winglet under the chase bike, an unmodified Doberman. The Bird Dog then rotated up and around, ending up on its back. The chase Doberman was also badly damaged. A truly sad day in the annals of aviation. Gravely disappointed by this setback, Julian scrapped the Bird Dog. The chase Doberman was rebuilt as the dual-purpose street-scrambler that you mention above. Oh, yes, for you reggie-spotters, the tail number of the Bird Dog was G-WOOF. -- Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov Of course I don't speak for NASA "A MiG at your six is better than no MiG at all." Unknown US fighter pilot Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Path: isc-br!frigg!carlp From: carlp@frigg.isc-br.com (Carl Paukstis) Subject: Re: Right Coast Ride on a Spagthorpe (Part 2) Message-ID: <1992Aug6.204820.25230@isc-br.isc-br.com> Sender: news@isc-br.isc-br.com (news user) Nntp-Posting-Host: frigg.isc-br.com Organization: ISC-Bunker Ramo, An Olivetti Company References: <0eTdC=y00WBK81uWgt@andrew.cmu.edu> <1992Aug05.234441.19769@microsoft.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1992 20:48:20 GMT In article shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) writes: >On 05 Aug 92 23:44:41 GMT, warrenma@microsoft.com (Warren Marts) said: > >WM> did have a rather extraodinary engine note. Spagthorpe had plans >WM> for a "street scrambler" dual-purpose version of the Doberman, but >WM> these were shelved during a factory reorganization ca. 1984. > >I believe that there was another dual-purpose version of the Doberman >that seems to have escaped everyone's notice. Perhaps no one else is >as interested in aircraft as am I? With deference to the Doberman and Mary's well-founded knowledge of aircraft, the only _genuine_ dual-purpose wheels in the extensive Spagthorpe kennel were from the two off-road bike series (Terriers and Spaniels). While the Cocker was a genuine off-road-only machine, the Brittany was a dual-purpose bike establishing traditions later followed by lesser manufacturers. Despite the name and the obvious quality, this machine never achieved much popularity within the Empire. Although some found the W4 to be a bit heavy and unwieldly, the Brittany saw great success as a messenger and dispatch machine with the Lithuanian Army between the wars (some 12 units were in use, according to my great-uncle Casmir, though any surviving examples were "lost". Uncle Casmir believes the Russians stole them and reverse-engineered the technology for use in the Zil limousines). Of course, the Spaniel line's acme was the awe-inspiring "Springer", which retrocatively inspired Mr. Wm. Davidson and partners on this side of the pond. The front suspension was a Byzantine arrangement which could only have sprung from the mind of Sir Julian himself, with his well-known penchant for Turkish hashih. The friction from this creative leaf-spring-and-94-links front suspension design, when used in off-road riding and particularly competition, of course, generated all the heat necessary for the early integrated heaters which debuted in the Springer Spaniel's second year of production. This heat-generation capability was discovered by original Team Spagthorpe enduro rider, one Reginald deCodswollop, during the fourth annual Pudleby-On-The-Marsh To Currey Mallet Endurance Race. Reggie was mounted on a very early-production Springer, and while negotiating a particularly rough bit of forest corduroy, his genuine Spag-line chaps burst into flame at the shins, inspiring the catch-phrase "flaming Codswollop". This was curiously linked with the sensibility of anyone who would ride a 764-pound enduro machine through the infamous Pudleby Marshes, but that's Reggie's tale, and another story. -- Carl Paukstis, RRR&RSG | "Good men must not obey the laws too well" ISC-Bunker Ramo / Spokane, WA | -- Ralph Waldo Emerson Phone: +1 509 927-5439 | Mail: carlp@frigg.isc-br.com | My employer accepts no responsibility... Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: Wanted: Parts for Spagthorpe Werewolf (yes, THAT, Werewolf) Message-ID: <199208062048.AA16049@laverda.unx.sas.com> Date: 6 Aug 92 20:48:30 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Reply-To: sasmjw@unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Cary NC Lines: 34 I'm afraid Brad is probably correct. It would be most unlikely that Poodle parts would fit your friend's machine. Although the Terrier that was, indirectly, the downfall of John's Uncle Crighton, was presumably a UK model, the inconsistency of parts did I believe carry over to the bikes produced for the US. If you really get desperate, you should try contacting someone in New Zealand (where it was also called the Poodle), as I understand from a school friend of mine (whose father was a dentist from that country) that an entire production run was exported there en masse and it is believed that these particular bikes were of a quality well above that of the US models. I am not too clear on the part interchangability of the older Spagthorpes with the more modern bikes -- I am more knowledgeable about the post-'81 machines -- but you may want to search out Arthur Treluggan's book _A Marque Reborn_ (translated from the Cornish by Marion Russell, whose books are also well worth finding). According to the landlord at the Fox & Hound, the book describes how Julian started up the lines using some of the previous inventory and I think you may find some clues as to alternate part numbers that may fit. I also suspect that any parts in the Wolfhound would be too heavy. What I would suggest is that if you can deduce the dimensions, you could get Steve Andersen to make the part from carbon fibre, which I'm sure would be in the spirit of the original. So, is your friend going to let you attempt the Land Speed Record on it? :-) Martyn --------------sasmjw@unx.sas.com----(Martyn Wheeler)----DoD #293-------------- SAS Institute, Inc: (919) 677-8000 ext.7954 H: (919) 839-0092 (Raleigh, NC) For sale: Autodynamics Formula Vee: $1800 obo "If you spin, you deserve to die" -- Mike Hawthorn Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: Spagthorpe odyssey Message-ID: <1992Aug7.032455.2099@ncar.ucar.edu> Date: 7 Aug 92 03:24:55 GMT References: <1992Aug7.022357.9407@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca> Sender: news@ncar.ucar.edu (USENET Maintenance) Organization: Scientific Computing Division/NCAR Boulder, CO Lines: 21 >From article <1992Aug7.022357.9407@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca>, by loki@nazgul.physics.mcgill.ca (Loki Jorgenson): > I hope to hell that someone is getting all this Spagthorpe > trivia written down!! Indeed, this is the kind of material that my late Uncle Crighton would have, ur, died for. I can only guess what lore was lost when the infamous Poindexter, that weasel, inherited Uncle Crighton's farm following the his untimely demise in the Combine Incident, as it's known in those parts. Only a single scrapbook remains. Be that as it may, in that one remaining scrapbook there are some very yellowed Spagthrope advertisements. I was thinking of trying to analyze the heraldic symbols on the Spagthrope coat of arms that was the firm's logo in the ads. Can anyone recommend a good reference book? I'm particularly puzzled by what appears to be a codpiece. Thanks. -- John Sloan "Since I've given up hope, +1 303 497 1243 NCAR/SCD I feel much better." Fax +1 303 497 1137 Boulder CO 80307-3000 USA jsloan@ncar.ucar.edu Logical Disclaimer: belong(opinions,jsloan). belong(opinions,_):-!,fail. Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: Spagthorpe odyssey Message-ID: <1992Aug7.174450.7318@colorado.edu> Date: 7 Aug 92 17:44:50 GMT References: <1992Aug7.022357.9407@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca> <1992Aug7.032455.2099@ncar.ucar.edu> Sender: news@colorado.edu (The Daily Planet) Organization: JILA, University of Colorado at Boulder Lines: 32 Nntp-Posting-Host: ajsh.colorado.edu In article <1992Aug7.032455.2099@ncar.ucar.edu> jsloan@ncar.ucar.edu (John Sloan) writes: > >Be that as it may, in that one remaining scrapbook there are some very >yellowed Spagthrope advertisements. I was thinking of trying to analyze >the heraldic symbols on the Spagthrope coat of arms that was the firm's >logo in the ads. Can anyone recommend a good reference book? I'm >particularly puzzled by what appears to be a codpiece. Thanks. By George, I think you've got it! I had heard that some of the adverts were cocked-up in the printing, and if I'm right, what you have is one of the rare existing examples of this error. What appears to be a codpiece is, in fact, an upside-down rendition of Julian's pride and joy, a moustache bra of his own invention. The hirsute lord devised this appliance with nostril protection in mind, which indeed makes it look like a more private accessory when you view it inverted. (Unkind stories spread among the factory workers joke about a mishap with this bra that allegedly sent the lord to the hospital with minor brain damage from oxygen starvation, but there may be a grain of truth in this - it may explain Julian's obsession with developing a fully-submersible motorcycle for the Royal Navy). So you might want to mount those yellowed pages with care, perhaps sealing them in nitrogen gas and putting them in a mildew-free environment. It might be amusing to mount a photo of a Spagthorpe upside-down next to it, and see if people make the connection between the "codpiece" and the stylized moustachios that comprise part of the pinstripe detailing on every Spagthorpe motorcycle. -- -Alex Matthews (matthews@ajsh.colorado.edu) DoD #0010 "It's too pure, too unrefined." - Lance Holst, August '91 Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Message-ID: <1992Aug8.235949.271@halfdome.sf.ca.us> Date: 9 Aug 92 06:59:49 GMT References: <1992Jul27.191553.24176@elroy.jpl.nasa. Distribution: usa Organization: Disorganized Organization Lines: 29 In article , warkenti@CAE.Mitel.Com (BJ Warkentin) writes: > While I'm sure that you and perhaps others find this a fascinating > topic, worthy of detailed analysis and much thought, I fail to see its > relevance in any way, shape, or form to motorcycles... my good sir, have you never heard of the spaglethorpe apostrophe? it was manufactured at spaglethorp bristol between july 1948 and september 1951. the reason it was called an "apostrophe" is becuase it was a 350cc thumper. you see, the apostrophe was a metaphor for the single piston. the 2 cylender 750 cc machine was christened the "quotation mark." it was the ad campaigns that got everyone excited about it: forget apostasy, the apothacary, and the appogiatura. feel yourself riding right up there with the ascenders. you, leading the phrase, and the little lady riding behind, perched just past the trailing puncutation for a literal (or should we say "literary") blast anyway, it was the pride and joy of many an anal-retentive english schoolmaster until it was renamed the "comma," because so many of them crashed. after that, it was all down hill. -- -- bob pasker -- bob@halfdome.sf.ca.us -- Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: Right Coast Ride on a Spagthorpe (Part 2) Message-ID: Date: 10 Aug 92 23:09:21 GMT References: <0eTdC=y00WBK81uWgt@andrew.cmu.edu> <1992Aug05.234441.19769@microsoft.com> Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin Lines: 19 NNTP-Posting-Host: ai.cs.utexas.edu warrenma@microsoft.com (Warren Marts) writes: >Um, Brad, I can't believe you made this error. Martyn was not refering >to the original Doberman, but to the latter-day Doberman produced by the >Spagthorpe after Julian revived the marque in 1981. Look, I really don't want to start this flame war up again; we just went through it a few months ago. Perhaps this should go in the FAQ. There are a lot of people out there who swear that the only true Spagthorpes are those made after Pishtah's untimely death in the mid 70's in a freak chain lubing incident. There are also those who believe that anything made after Lord Julian gave up hash is about as much a Spagthorpe as a riding crop is a Brogue Superior fork brace. I really don't care; they're all fine bikes and I'll wave at anyone who rides one, OK? Either Dobie would've been superior in the twisties to the Wolfhound, as fine a mount as that is. Let's just let that sleeping thread lie. Take care, brad Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: Right Coast Ride on a Spagthorpe (Part 2) Message-ID: Date: 11 Aug 92 03:12:33 GMT References: <0eTdC=y00WBK81uWgt@andrew.cmu.edu> <1992Aug05.234441.19769@microsoft.com> Organization: Government Technology Services, Inc. Lines: 31 In article brad@cs.utexas.edu (Brad Blumenthal) writes: >warrenma@microsoft.com (Warren Marts) writes: >>Um, Brad, I can't believe you made this error. Martyn was not refering >>to the original Doberman, but to the latter-day Doberman produced by the >>Spagthorpe after Julian revived the marque in 1981. > >Look, I really don't want to start this flame war up again; we just went >through it a few months ago. Perhaps this should go in the FAQ. There >are a lot of people out there who swear that the only true Spagthorpes >are those made after Pishtah's untimely death in the mid 70's in a freak What about the '72 Electric Blue Spag? Pish was involved in that one, and it was the only bike of its kind, barring cheap American imitations. You have to admit that 105hp at the wheel is a hell of an accomplishment in a 300lb production bike, even if it did require flourine cooling and handled like the lamentable limited Skye Terrier line of the late 60's (which of course most of the fork and suspension technology came from). Too bad most of these are wrapped around fire hydrants nowadays. >a riding crop is a Brogue Superior fork brace. I really don't care; >they're all fine bikes and I'll wave at anyone who rides one, OK? Well, except for the late models after Spagthorpe's were REALLY repackaged Italian brands. Remember the Canine? "Best of the breed", my ass. Whoever thought of that ad should be shot. > -- Rich Lawrence - "Stinger" - DoD#9630 '92 Seca II - Buckaroo Banzai lives! Sysop/Hallucination: Full UseNet,Fido,Relay, 2GB+ IBM/Amiga 1-703-425-5824 rich@halluc.com CI$:71101,2272 Fido:1:109/345 GEnie: R.LAWRENCE14 "I'm fine" - Data, in DataLore Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: Spagthorpe odyssey Message-ID: Date: 10 Aug 92 23:28:37 GMT References: <1992Aug7.022357.9407@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca> Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin Lines: 41 NNTP-Posting-Host: ai.cs.utexas.edu loki@nazgul.physics.mcgill.ca (Loki Jorgenson) writes: >trivia written down!! It will be a chilly day in Tiajuana when so >much significant history is exchanged under one banner. It should My goddess! This one of the most amazing instances of synchronicity I've seen in a long time. I was down in Nuevo Laredo last weekend, looking for a good price on a bottle of Tres Generaciones, and I still can't believe what I found. Coming up the steps after crossing the bridge, I was accosted by the usual offers of diet pills and doctor's perscriptions. And then I heard a soft voice say, "Spagthorpe." I couldn't believe my ears. He repeated it, and against my better instincts, I followed. In a ramshackle, well, shack out back of the Cadillac Bar, covered in straw, stood what has to be the only surviving bike from the ill-fated production run of the Spagthorpe Motor Compania Mexico, N.A. This is the bike built on the lines of the old line Cocker Spaniel, but with the modified, infamous 3/1-stoke, "Hammerhead" engine. The piston is a double headed affair, with a combustion chamber at each horiazontally opposed end. This was the two piston, four cylinder, 357 cc, dirt machine that was so popular with bootleggers during prohibition and later with drug runners. Dubbed the "Chiuaua," legend has it that the vibration on this thing was so sever that it could actually shimmy over water, making Rio Grande crossings ridiculously easy. In addition, it was rumored to run on tequilla, allowing 'leggers to trade profit for distance when being pursued. We began negotiations over a bottle of Hornitos Reposada. I couldn't believe the bugger was trying to negotiate in centavos, but we kept at it, shot after shot, lime after lime. Despite knowing that I would wake up the next morning with a hangover, almost assuredly in the gutter, probably naked, and possibly with a headless Barbie doll with a phone number scratched in the back, I managed to conclude the deal. The bike is in terrible shape, and customs will no doubt dog me for a long time, but I'm making this a project bike. Anyone know where I can lay my hands on a T-joint piston rod and an ambidexterous wrist pin? Take care, brad Subject: Re: RCR on a Spagthorpe (Part 2) Message-ID: <19229@drutx.ATT.COM> Date: 11 Aug 92 22:58:20 GMT References: <0eTdC=y00WBK81uWgt@andrew.cmu.edu> <1992Aug05.234441.19769@microsoft.com> <1992Aug6.204820.25230@isc-br.isc-br.com> Sender: news@drutx.ATT.COM Reply-To: kpm@druhi.ATT.COM (Kevin Malloy (DoD #106)) Organization: AT&T, Denver, CO Lines: 62 All this talk about the Spagthorpes reminded me of a tale my great aunt Alexis N. Matthews(*) told me when I was but a young pup. (*) Curiously, my family seems to be no relation to Alex Matthews, even though my mother's maiden name is Matthews and we were both raised in Maryland. My Aunt was (I believe the story can be told now in the post-Cold War era) an arms merchant in central Asia just after The Great War (WWII). She showed me a faded black-and-white snap of the little-known Apso-Spag, manufactured by the Tibetians in Lhasa. This 600lb monster (including side-car) was based on a design that competed with the early Cocker (code-named Collie) but canceled by Spagthorpe himself during a corporate budget exercise. I believe the snapshot was taken during the Lhasa-Katmandu Endurance race as Mt. K-2 is in the background. The model pictured was itself a prototype, according to my great-aunt. The production model was scheduled to begin manufacture the following year, but, because of the Communist Chinese invasion, the factory was retooled to build tri-wheeled tanks. The Chinese completely destroyed the factory during the siege of Lhasa. One can still occasionally find a set of vintage Whitworth tools for sale in the Lhasa central bazaar, speculation is that they are occasionally unearthed by the nomads who have established a llama farm collective on the site of the old A-S factory. This single-cylinder on/off road monster was a unique machine. The Tibetians took the original (discarded) design and re-engineered it to run on diesel fuels, more specifically cottonseed oil, of which was plentiful at the time in Tibet. It is thought that the engine was turbo-charged, because it performed well at altitudes of over 20k ft. Also, because of the dramatic altitude changes in Tibet, the Apso-Spag came equipped with an air-compressor to automatically adjust tire pressure to changes in external air pressure (due to extreme changes in altitude or temperature). [Experiments with non-pneumatic tires proved unsatisfactory -- they tended to crack in extreme cold, melt in extreme heat, and the test riders liked to mark up Lhasa's concrete streets during stopping exercises.] Bamboo was heavily used in the manufacture of the bike, as double-leaf springs in the seat, as tubing (for fuel and for the coolant recirculation), as the shaft (this _was_ a shafty, you know), and even as brake and clutch levers on the handle bars (one had to wear gloves while riding, according to Auntie Alexis, the levers wheren't highly polished and one could get splinters under one's nails if one wasn't careful). Too bad there are no remaining prototypes of the Apso-Spag. Perhaps, if history had been just a bit different, the A-S would have proven to be an inspiration to the Japanese bike manufactures, just as the original Spagthorpe line tended to heavily influence the American builders. We'll never know. Geez, I'd forgotten about this story. Thanks to this thread, I've been reminded. I'll be sure to share this story with my nephews (I have no nieces) as Auntie Alexis shared it with me. Cheers, Kevin Kevin Malloy kpm@druhi.att.com AT&T Bell Labs, Denver (303) 538-3511 633 E. 11th Ave. 1991 BMW K75RT Denver, CO 80203 I'm voting _NO_ on Colorado DoD #106 (303) 830-2937 Constitutional Amendment #2, Nov 3rd! Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: rec.motorcycles.spagthorpe Message-ID: <1992Aug11.185332.8583@ncar.ucar.edu> Date: 11 Aug 92 18:53:32 GMT Sender: news@ncar.ucar.edu (USENET Maintenance) Reply-To: jsloan@ncar.ucar.edu (John Sloan) Organization: Scientific Computing Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO Lines: 53 I've kept silent over the rec.motorcycles.spagthorpe flame war currently errupting in the rec.motorcycles.secret.password.required newsgroup, but this latest post forces me to respond. >From car0xFF@druid.tpc.com: ]Sounds like you're saying that "Most spagthorpe types" don't have anything ]in common with the entire rest of the motorcycling community. Is that ]really true? If it is, how did we ever manage to create the "old ways" ]that made rec.moto so enjoyable and addicting in the past? It has been claimed, with some legitimacy I think, that the "spagthorpe types" (your term) really _don't_ have anything to do with the rest of the motorcycling community. Even you must admit that Spagthorpes much be judged by a different set of standards that those of any other motorcycle marque. The usual metrics just don't apply. ]I also fall into the category of readers who "are not interested in ]the huge volume of stuff" in rec.moto. After seeing all the popular ]threads repeatedly for 7 years, I find that 99% of the postings are ]now "noise". The thing that has kept me hanging around this long is ]diversity. Every once in a while, we get the sort of article that only ]appears when many perspectives and topics are actively present. Those ]few have made my continued participation worth the effort. Never the less, there is a substantial group of rec.moto readers that now only read those articles that have "Spagthorpe" in the subject line. I admit, I'm not quite there yet, but I'm finding that as time goes by, I read less and less of the non-Spagthorpe related articles. Having a spagthorpe group isn't exclusionary... anyone can participate. It's merely a convenience for those interested in a particularly legendary marque. ]Then those of us interested in both Spagthorpe and non-Spagthorpe topics ]and perspectives in the same forum won't have a "home". At this ]point, it looks pretty grim for those of us who fit this description. ]If the new group forms, it will serve as the forum for "Spagthorpe topics" ]and will further diminish those topics and perspectives in r.m. as ]the other two subgroups and the Spagthorpe list have done for their respective ]topics and perspectives. If it doesn't form, the self-imposed exile of ]"Spagthorpe types" from r.m will continue (with ad infinitum 6-month RFD ]replays) and will have the same net effect on r.m. I admit that I have not voted one way or the other in the prior twenty or so RFDs on rec.motorcycles.spagthorpe, but when the next one rolls around I will feel compelled to make my vote for the creation of the newsgroup. -- John Sloan "Since I've given up hope, +1 303 497 1243 NCAR/SCD I feel much better." Fax +1 303 497 1137 Boulder CO 80307-3000 USA jsloan@ncar.ucar.edu Logical Disclaimer: belong(opinions,jsloan). belong(opinions,_):-!,fail. Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: rec.motorcycles.spagthorpe Message-ID: Date: 11 Aug 92 19:56:16 GMT References: <1992Aug11.185332.8583@ncar.ucar.edu> Sender: brady_p@apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 13 Nntp-Posting-Host: hasselblad.ch.apollo.hp.com jsloan@ncar.ucar.edu (John Sloan) writes: > >of the motorcycling community. Even you must admit that Spagthorpes much >be judged by a different set of standards that those of any other >motorcycle marque. The usual metrics just don't apply. ^^^^^^^ Right. Spagthorpes used Whitworth spanners not metric ones... :-) ObMotoBits: I just put a deposit down on a '92 CBR600F2. Now all I have to do is find the cash in one of my accounts to pay for it... --pete Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: rec.motorcycles.spagthorpe Message-ID: <1992Aug11.132928.277@halfdome.sf.ca.us> Date: 11 Aug 92 20:29:28 GMT References: <1992Aug11.185332.8583@ncar.ucar.edu> Organization: Disorganized Organization Lines: 14 In article <1992Aug11.185332.8583@ncar.ucar.edu>, jsloan@ncar.ucar.edu (John Sloan) writes: > I admit that I have not voted one way or the other in the prior twenty > or so RFDs on rec.motorcycles.spagthorpe, but when the next one rolls > around I will feel compelled to make my vote for the creation of the > newsgroup. its is my opinion that mr. sloan's decision to end his era of fence sitting is directly attributable to his recent acquisition of none other than the biggest dog in the spagthorpe kennel: the Husky-Doberman. -- -- bob pasker -- bob@halfdome.sf.ca.us -- Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: rec.motorcycles.spagthorpe Message-ID: <1566@shaman.wv.tek.com> Date: 12 Aug 92 20:21:40 GMT References: <1992Aug11.185332.8583@ncar.ucar.edu> <1992Aug11.132928.277@halfdome.sf.ca.us> Sender: nobody@shaman.wv.tek.com Reply-To: davewi@soccer.wv.tek.com Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville, OR. Lines: 13 In article <1992Aug11.132928.277@halfdome.sf.ca.us> bob@halfdome.sf.ca.us (Bob Pasker) writes: >its is my opinion that mr. sloan's decision to end his era of fence sitting is >directly attributable to his recent acquisition of none other than the biggest >dog in the spagthorpe kennel: the Husky-Doberman. > I thought that this honor went to the Wolfhound, which after all is approximately the size and shape of a Ford Aerostar :-) -- David Wise davewi@orca.wv.tek.com DoD#427 1980 CX500C (Packy) Guzzi T3: coming soon to a DW near you Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Spagthorpe Pug, the original minimalist motorcycle Keywords: Spagthorpe, Chuck, torque Message-ID: <19329@drutx.ATT.COM> Date: 14 Aug 92 15:40:10 GMT Distribution: rec Organization: AT&T, Denver, CO Lines: 285 Pug - The original Spagthorpe With all the recent talk about the various Spagthorpe models, I am surprised that no one has mentioned the original Spagthorpe, the Pug. It is a relatively little-known motorcycle, so perhaps it should not be surprising that no one else has heard of it. It is, to be sure, one of the most fascinating episodes in the history of motorcycling, both because of the remarkable design of the machine itself, and of the incredible sequence of events that took place that one fateful Sunday afternoon. To truly understand the Pug, it is first necessary to understand the men that built her. One must understand that in those days, minimalism wasn't simply the right thing to do -- it wasn't even a word. Nonetheless, it was a philosophy that the designers understood all too well, particularly the chief designer, Hairy Rasterhead. Minimalism was, for Hairy, an obsession. So much so, in fact, that he could see no point in having different names for his two main assistants, and so hired two very capable engineers, both named Chuck. Although on some occasions, such as when going into town on Saturday nights, he was heard to introduce himself and his assistants thus: "Hi, I'm Hairy. This is my helper, Chuck, and this is my other helper, Chuck.", he generally just referred to the pair collectively as "Chuck". But I digress. Although there are no known remaining photographs of the Pug, if indeed any were ever any taken, much about its design has since been pieced together from several first hand descriptions that were written at the time. The engine was apparently taken from one of the early airplane engines, both having been built sometime in the 1890's (the exact year is not known). The most unique aspect of these engines was that, rather than the cylinders being fixed to the frame, and the crank free to rotate, the crank was attached to the frame, with the cylinders free to rotate about the crank. The beauty of this system, as it was applied to the Pug, is the way in which it facilitated the most singularly simple drive mechanism that has ever been conceived, before or since. The crank was attached to the frame at the location where today the rear axle is found, at the end of the rear fork, except there was no swing arm as such, it being a rigid mount. (The frame itself was, however, handcrafted of seasoned hickory, which offered some measure of absorption of bumps.) The two halves of the fork were set fairly wide apart, as was necessary since the cylinders rotated in the space between them, just as the rear wheel does in a modern motorcycle. The crank had a single "throw", to which two pistons were connected via a pair of very unique and ingenious connecting rods. It has been reported that the rods were, curiously, manufactured from military-spec eating utensils, with one forked and straddling the other, permitting the two pistons to orbit in the same plane, centered in the space between the rear forks. This arrangement has variously been referred to as the "one forked and straddling the other, permitting the pistons to orbit in the same plane" arrangement, or the "missionary" arrangement, or, more simply, the "humping-couple" arrangement. But I digress. The two cylinders were opposed (180 degree offset) to one another, and connected to each other via a rigid cast-iron block, which rotated on two bearings on the crank, located at either side of the crank throw, and each just inside the fork. As the pressure in the combustion chamber increased, the pressure against the head caused the cylinders to rotate as they pushed away from the pistons, which rotated along with the cylinders, but pulled away from the heads in doing so since the center of their circle of rotation, the crank throw, was offset from the center of rotation of the cylinders, the crank itself. On one side of the cylinders a single magneto winding was attached, the pulse being generated by a permanent magnet attached to the crank. On the other side of the cylinders a small cam shaft was connected to the crank via some gearing arrangement that caused the cam to turn at precisely half the rate of the cylinders. It is not known exactly how this was done, but it is believed that this was the only toothed gear arrangement to be found anywhere on the machine. A pair of exposed rods for each cylinder were driven by this cam; these rods actuated the valves via a set of rocker arms, also exposed. It is not known how the fuel tanks were connected. There may have been a single tank attached to the cylinders, but since this problem was also solved in the airplane application, it can be assumed that it was solved here in a similar fashion. The wheel consisted of a forged iron ring bolted to the ends of the cylinders, with two additional supports running from the ring to the block, each centered between the two cylinders where they connected to the inner surface of the ring. A solid layer of hard rubber was then riveted to the metal ring. Here, then, was the beauty and the elegance of the Pug design: neither chain drive nor shaft drive, but *direct* drive. Simplicity defined, pure and, well, simple. There was no shaft effect, and no chain to rattle around, stretch, and generally make a nuisance of itself. Neither before nor since has there been another design so elegant and so, well, simple. The diameter of the wheel was about half a meter; the circumference about 1.6 meter. At about 400 rpm, the machine reached its top speed of about 640 meters/minute, or 24 mph. Due to the large moment of inertia of the rotating part of the engine, it idled at 200 rpm. To start the bike, one simply ran along side until the speed reached about 12 mph, at which it point it would start and you simply jumped on. It was, to be sure, the very of essence of simplicity. Sadly, though, this was a machine well ahead of its time, and did suffer from several minor technical difficulties. First of all, there was the difficulty climbing hills. The engine itself was actually capable of more power than could be used (on level ground). The work required increased more rapidly with velocity and rpm than did the power generated, so that above 400 rpm, the incremental power required was greater than the incremental power generated. It was consequently unable to climb hills with slope greater than about 5 degrees, requiring the rider to frequently dismount, run along with the bike for so long as it would continue under its own power, and eventually push the bike when it died as the slope became too steep. More serious than this drawback, though, was the torque reaction problem. The moment of inertia of the bike, about the crank, was very small, due to the fact that most of the mass of the bike was contained in the rear wheel. Even the feeble amount of torque generated was enough to cause the front end of the bike to come off the ground during modest acceleration. It was generally necessary to build the speed up very slowly, taking it from 12 mph to 24 mph over a period of several minutes. Even without the weight transfer of acceleration, the reaction to the engine torque alone was sufficient to cause the weight on the front wheel to be too small to generate sufficient steering force and stability. The person who discovered the solution to this problem was, remarkably enough, the test rider, Scratchin' Itches-Fetching Ping Pong Balls (who was referred to by Hairy as simply "Scratch"). Scratch took one look at the situation and proclaimed, "If you turn that there wheel around the other way, the torque reaction will reverse, transferring the weight to the front wheel. Turn that there wheel around the other way." The only problem with this was, of course, that the machine would now run backwards, with the steered wheel following the power wheel. This required the rider to turn around and face the other direction, and steer the bike by reaching around his back. This was a lot like steering a small boat with an outboard motor; you had to move the steering arm in the direction opposite to the direction that you wanted it to go, thus the term "counter-steering" was born, although it is still generally misunderstood even to this day. The steering problem was partly solved by extending the handlebars further, so that they came up along either side of the rider. This limited the extent of the steering rotation, though, but Scratch, being the resourceful dude that he was, soon learned to increase the extent of the steering rotation by leaning off to one side of the bike, a technique that he referred to as "hanging off", and that is still practiced to this very day by many of his modern disciples. The reversed-direction solution worked fairly well, with only a minimal amount of traction loss at the power wheel, which was referred to as "torque steer". The only remaining significant problem was that the trail of the steering wheel was now in the wrong direction. This was solved by merely using a near-vertical rake angle and a large amount of negative-positive (positive-negative?) offset in the front (make that rear) triple clamps. And thus was the Spagthorpe Pug born. A truly remarkable motorcycle, to be sure. Test runs went pretty well for the first few weeks, consisting primarily of low-speed runs back and forth to determine the handling characteristics. Scratch, however, grew increasingly impatient to attempt to set a new land speed record. Hairy and Chuck did some calculations and were convinced that the engine would actually generate greater power if only there were some way to get the rpm up higher. Exactly what happened next is not clear. The few surviving accounts of what happened that fateful Sunday afternoon disagree to various degrees, but it seems that what happened went something as follows. Once again, it was Scratch who had the breakthrough idea. He realized that if the bike was ridden down hill, the force of gravity would add to the acceleration generated by the bike, causing it to go faster, which would increase the rpm, and permit the engine to come into its power band. So they pushed it to the top of a dirt road that wound up the side of a mountain. And then they started to push it down, and Scratch jumped on, and Hairy and Chuck stood and watched in amazement at what happened next. The bike took off like nothing they had ever seen before, accelerating even harder with every incremental increase in speed. Faster and faster, reaching 30, 40, 50 mph and beyond, still accelerating. 60, 70, 80 even 90 mph, now shaking violently. The acceleration began slowing, though, and gradually it hit 95 mph, and then slowly 100, 101, and 102 mph. Chuck realized that Scratch was rapidly approaching Dead Man's Curve, and they yelled at the top of their lungs, while Hairy simply stood and watched in amazement, completely dumbfounded. Scratch reached 103 mph, and then, barely, 104. Exactly why Scratch didn't make the curve isn't clear. Some speculate that the excessive inertia in the wheel made it impossible for the lean angle to be increased sufficiently fast. Regardless, Scratch did miss the curve, and at the same instant he went flying over the edge of the cliff, the Pug hit, yes, 105 mph, *ludicrous speed*. Nobody had ever reached ludicrous speed before, much less stopped from ludicrous speed. The wheel and crankshaft broke away from the bike frame, which went with Scratch over the cliff. The wheel and crank landed, amazingly enough, back in the road further down the side of the mountain. Without the inertia and weight of the frame and rider to resist rotation of the crank, something totally unexpected happened. The rotation of the wheel slowed down, and the crank began rotating furiously. Hairy, Chuck, and Chuck had run as fast as they could down the road, and when they caught up with the wheel, they found it wedged between two large rocks, stationary, with the crankshaft rotating furiously inside. Hairy took one look at it and proclaimed, "Eureka! I have discovered the answer! The cylinders can be attached to the frame, allowing the crank to rotate, and the rotational motion of the crank then transmitted to the wheel by ... something!" As for Scratch, the last words that he was heard to utter as he went flying over the cliff were largely incomprehensible; the only word that Hairy and Chuck could recognize was "champion", but they never figured out exactly what it meant. He was never seen again, and no body was ever found. Curiously, his jacket was found, even more curiously, with not a single scratch on it. Many speculated that since no one had ever stopped from ludicrous speed before, that it might be physically impossible to stop. In retrospect, this logic seems questionable, since in fact no one had ever even reached ludicrous speed before. Hairy spent the last years of his life trying to perfect his new invention, "shaft drive", as he called it. He was largely confounded by the same basic problems of the direct drive system. His oldest son Chian, however, after watching his father lift his prototype frames countless times with a rope and pulley, hit upon the idea of a flexible drive mechanism, where the rope would be made from metal plates linked together with pivoting pins running across to the opposite plate. Although the proper spelling somehow got lost over the years, there can be no doubt as to the origin of our modern "chain" drive. As every story must have a moral, so must this one, although you would never have guessed it. Since there is no way that you could possibly have deduced it, I am obligated to spell it out: in the end, what really matters is not *what* you ride; it's the ride itself. Cheers, Tom Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles,rec.motorcycles.harley.spagthorpe Subject: Re: Spagthorpe odyssey Message-ID: <1992Aug16.184622.7106@cerritos.edu> Date: 17 Aug 92 02:46:22 GMT References: <1992Aug7.022357.9407@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca> Organization: Cerritos College, Norwalk CA Lines: 27 In article , brad@cs.utexas.edu (Brad Blumenthal) writes: > This was the two piston, four cylinder, 357 cc, dirt machine > that was so popular with bootleggers during prohibition and later with > drug runners. Dubbed the "Chiuaua," legend has it that the vibration on I'm confused. Is this a local nickname, or is it another case of them reusing a model name? The only Spagthorpe Chihuahua I know about was built about 25 years ago under license in Italy (by Motoveta di Travitori? one of those little manufacturers no longer in business) using most of the original Chihuahua design, but never sold under the Spagthorpe or Chihuahua name. I say 'most' of the design because they could never get the original 3-cycle engine to work right, eventually devolving it to a 2-cycle plus pedals for production purposes. The engine design is also why it was never produced in England as part of the marque. Anyway, it was never sold in Italy either. The Italians were the OEM for what was sold in the USA as the (AMF) Harley Davidson M-50 Leggero. Over 4,000 of the 50cc (and later 65cc) machines were sold before Harley Davidson got out of the moped business. And never a mention of Lord Spagthorpe was made in any of the H-D literature. -Bruce -- Bruce Tanner (310) 860-2451 x 596 Tanner@Cerritos.EDU Cerritos College Norwalk, CA DoD #0161 NOMAD #007 Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Spagthorpe Werewolf, Mudvalve Problems Message-ID: <1992Aug18.182943.20579@vuse.vanderbilt.edu> Date: 18 Aug 92 18:29:43 GMT Sender: news@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (News Manager) Organization: Vanderbilt University School of Engineering, Nashville, TN, USA Lines: 18 Originator: dab@space3 Nntp-Posting-Host: space3 Whilst visiting my friend with the Werewolf the other night, he presented me with a conundrum. The time that the bike spent at the bottom of the lake has apparently caused some corrosion *inside* the mudvalve. As such, it cannot be removed without first disassembling it. Conversely, it cannot be disassembled without first removing it. Setting all Harley Davidson tools aside, how does one go about approaching the cleaning and renewing of a seized mudvalve? Beyond that... does anyone have access to the factory literature or know where copies can be had? Are there any NOS mudvalve kits or (God forbid) complete mudvalve assemblies "out there?" Please note that we DO have the necessary double-helix spanners as well as the MV1 holder-fixture-jig assembly for when we get the damn thing loose. Can anyone suggest a source for pootane gas? ============================================================================ "No hour of life is lost that is spent in the garage." - Julian Spagthorpe The Nashville Flash - dab@vuse.vanderbilt.edu - DoD # 412 Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: political correctness (was: Re: rec.moto.harley) Message-ID: <4569@prcrs.prc.com> Date: 12 Aug 92 21:37:16 GMT References: <1992Aug6.043702.535@ttinews.tti.com> <1992Aug7.140546.1158@ncsu.edu> Organization: PRC Realty Systems, McLean, VA Lines: 13 I really think that all this recent drivel about an obscure british marque (the Spagthorpe) really belongs in a separate forum, and should not otherwise burden the owners of non-Spagthorpe marques who want to use this otherwise exemplary newsgroup! Cast them down into their own purgatory I say. Let them bother us no more with their w-4's and their air condintioning and their reverse grear(s)! -- | Terry Cunningham terry@rsi.prc.com | "Let me take my chances on the wall | | DoD# 541 | of death" Richard Thompson | Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: political correctness (was: Re: rec.moto.harley) Message-ID: <4570@prcrs.prc.com> Date: 12 Aug 92 21:47:38 GMT References: <1992Aug6.043702.535@ttinews.tti.com> <1992Aug7.140546.1158@ncsu.edu> Organization: PRC Realty Systems, McLean, VA Lines: 15 You know, I really must protest the discussion of that oustanding triumph of british engineering, Spagthorpe motorcycles, in this common and vulgar forum, rec.motorcycles. Such a prestigious marque is certainly worthy if its' own newsgroup, and I hereby propose a rec.apotheosis.Spagthorpe. Those individuals worthy of the honor would be granted permission to peruse the newsgroup and to submit articles in praise of said marque. Sir Fortescue Stukehorn, CBE DoD DoReMi -- | Terry Cunningham terry@rsi.prc.com | "Let me take my chances on the wall | | DoD# 541 | of death" Richard Thompson | Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: GPNDG: Thoughts Message-ID: <1992Aug17.222045.10142@ncar.ucar.edu> Date: 17 Aug 92 22:20:45 GMT References: <1992Aug17.200511.23293@serval.net.wsu.edu> Sender: news@ncar.ucar.edu (USENET Maintenance) Organization: Scientific Computing Division/NCAR Boulder, CO Lines: 20 >From article <1992Aug17.200511.23293@serval.net.wsu.edu>, by johnsw@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu (William E. Johns): : > I want to thank all who helped, including Jeff Earls, Carl Paukstis, and > my spy in Seattle. Carl deserved special thanks. His Spagthorpe St. > Bernard (I had never seen one before, a real treat for me--he even took : I cannot believe that I've heard on the e-grapevine: that no one had the presence of mind to take a photograph of the St. Bernard for Bruce Tanner's digitized photo archives at cerritos.edu. Please tell me that it's not true. I've very close to scrounging up an old photograph of my Uncle Crighton roostering on his Spagthorpe Terrier out in one of his fields. (I may have to twist cousin Poindexter's little slimey head off to get it, though.) -- John Sloan "Since I've given up hope, +1 303 497 1243 NCAR/SCD I feel much better." Fax +1 303 497 1137 Boulder CO 80307-3000 USA jsloan@ncar.ucar.edu Logical Disclaimer: belong(opinions,jsloan). belong(opinions,_):-!,fail. From: carlp@frigg.isc-br.com (Carl Paukstis) Subject: Re: GPNDG: Thoughts Message-ID: <1992Aug19.181227.29613@isc-br.isc-br.com> Sender: news@isc-br.isc-br.com (news user) Nntp-Posting-Host: frigg.isc-br.com Organization: ISC-Bunker Ramo, An Olivetti Company References: <1992Aug17.200511.23293@serval.net.wsu.edu> <1992Aug17.222045.10142@ncar.ucar.edu> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 18:12:27 GMT In article <1992Aug17.222045.10142@ncar.ucar.edu> jsloan@ncar.ucar.edu (John Sloan) writes: >From article <1992Aug17.200511.23293@serval.net.wsu.edu>, by johnsw@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu (William E. Johns): > : >> I want to thank all who helped, including Jeff Earls, Carl Paukstis, and >> my spy in Seattle. Carl deserved special thanks. His Spagthorpe St. >> Bernard (I had never seen one before, a real treat for me--he even took > >I cannot believe that I've heard on the e-grapevine: that no one had >the presence of mind to take a photograph of the St. Bernard for Bruce >Tanner's digitized photo archives at cerritos.edu. Please tell me that Well, I just got my photos back. Unfortunately, when I was taking a picture of the St. Bernard (emphasis on the FIRST syllable, y'know), somebody seems to have driven a Plymouth Voyager in between the camera and the Spagthorpe... -- Carl Paukstis, RRR&RSG | "Good men must not obey the laws too well" ISC-Bunker Ramo / Spokane, WA | -- Ralph Waldo Emerson Phone: +1 509 927-5439 | Mail: carlp@frigg.isc-br.com | My employer accepts no responsibility... Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: Popping them Message-ID: <1992Aug19.212704.29867@i88.isc.com> Date: 19 Aug 92 21:27:04 GMT References: <1992Aug18.175251.16897@infonode.ingr.com> <1992Aug19.144101.19656@bnr.uk> Sender: usenet@i88.isc.com (Usenet News) Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL Lines: 68 Nntp-Posting-Host: birdie.i88.isc.com In article <1992Aug19.144101.19656@bnr.uk> datasbld@bnr.ca (Datasbuild) writes: >Yeah, but countersteering is almost impossible with the front wheel in the air, >especially when you're trying to force yourself around another psychotically >slow right-hander being pursued by a tailgating ex-Harley rider in a Porsche! >I threw my steel-toe capped full length boot full of ball-bearings, sparking >plugs and stones at him but, because he was drunk and using his car-phone he >totally ignored me. Thank goodness I was riding a Spagthorpe WarDog, I just >fired the multi-grenade launcher up and blew the bugger away!! :) You can countersteer as long as the front wheel is still turning. (provided, of course, that you are willing to acknowledge that gyroscopic precession has some contribution to countersteering.) Of course, if you're riding with the front wheel continously in the air, you need to keep it spinning; hence the need for two wheel drive. (That's one of the reasons that the Spagthorpe Desert Fox was such a hit after the war. The two wheel drive was originally designed to handle the rigors of a desert battlefield. The Desert Fox was essentially a modified WarDog, and can be easily distinguished by the bodywork around the steering head that houses and protects the complex train of gears, sprockets, and idlers that connect the Desert Fox's front wheel to its forward gearbox. Knowing the inherent efficiency loss in a shaft drive system, the Spagthorpe designers boldly asserted that the Desert Fox would be an all chain drive machine. The other distinguishing feature is the 18 gallon fuel tank; they reasoned that a military vehicle with a desert mission would need an extensive range, and the Desert Fox was said to be capable of 600 miles between refuelings. Postwar, when ex-Royal Marines demonstrated the manueverability of the Desert Fox with one wheel in the air, everybody wanted one. It's kind of hard to resist a bike that can turn a doughnut and shower spectators with gravel while reared back like a stallion. [One unconfirmed story claims that Ferarri's famous rampant stallion logo came about when one of the firms partners saw Enzo Ferrari demonstrating a standing 360 on his Desert Fox. It went on to say that they had trouble convincing him to spend time in cars after that...] It should also be noted that a factory team of 4 Spagthorpe Desert Foxes were the only entrants to complete the first (and last) annual Boulton-Dakar rally. Amidst complaints from the other factory teams (there were no private entries; the equipment requirements were just too costly), the origination point was moved to Paris the following year. While several entries did make some distance in the attempted channel crossing (most notably a Ducati which was estimated, based on channel currents and the recovery site, to have travelled 300 meters over water before floundering), the Desert Foxes were the only to complete the crossing. (In fact, the team stopped to assist in rescue operations for the other rally entrants before continuing on. The remainder of the course is uncertain; some checkpoints were missed, and the team spent some 45 days crossing the Italian Alps; as one of the team members was stationed in Italy as a Marine during the war, it is theorized that the time was spent reestablishing old relationships with the natives.) But international racing is, like all international contests, a political game; the Spagthorpes were far too technically advanced for the others to compete, so by "unanimous agreement", the route of the race was permanently changed. Since the Desert Fox's range and amphibious ability were among it's main advantages, the removal of the channel crossing and enforcement of checkpoint stops at regular (short) intervals lessened the Fox's competetive edge, and when the original team all died of syphillus in the span of a few months, thus ending the "Dream Team", Lord Spagthorpe lost enthusiasm in the rally, and declared a moratorium on competetive use of the Fox. He attempted to repurchase all the civilian Foxes, and destroyed as many as he could get. Unconfirmed rumours claim the tooling and design was sold to a small mideastern government. The few remaining examples are highly prized by collectors, and unfortunately are rarely available for inspection.) -- Jonathan E. Quist INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation jeq@i88.isc.com '71 CL450-K4 "Gleep", DoD #094 Naperville, IL George Bush claims to have neglected domestic issues in favor of foreign policy. Looking at Iraqi civilians, I'm glad we didn't have his full attention. Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: Spagthorpe Werewolf, Mudvalve Problems Message-ID: <1992Aug19.175715.24219@i88.isc.com> Date: 19 Aug 92 17:57:15 GMT References: <1992Aug18.182943.20579@vuse.vanderbilt.edu> Sender: usenet@i88.isc.com (Usenet News) Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL Lines: 70 Nntp-Posting-Host: birdie.i88.isc.com In article <1992Aug18.182943.20579@vuse.vanderbilt.edu> dab@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (The Nashville Flash) writes: >Whilst visiting my friend with the Werewolf the other night, he presented me >with a conundrum. The time that the bike spent at the bottom of the lake Was that a latex, or natural skin conundrum? >has apparently caused some corrosion *inside* the mudvalve. As such, it >cannot be removed without first disassembling it. Conversely, it cannot be >disassembled without first removing it. Setting all Harley Davidson tools >aside, how does one go about approaching the cleaning and renewing of a >seized mudvalve? Depending upon the position of the valve parts, it may be relatively simple. First, call in a local large animal veterinarian - he or she will have portable X-ray equipment. You should be able to determine the position of the valve from the picture. If it's partially open, you may be in luck. Drill a 3/45" Whitworth hole on the side of the valve housing, slightly above the valve flapper. Fish a hose in the side, and drip a little oxalic acid on the bushing flange. Wait a few minutes, then rinse with a high-pressure water stream. The valve should now be free enough to remove it as per normal procedures. Once you have disassembled the valve, you can patch the hole with a MIG welder. (If you don't have one, you can order one from the Mikoyan factory.) Caution: This procedure is safe on most Werewolves. Unfortunately, the first 5 production models had investment cast bronze bushing flange attachment fittings. (When the Scottish machinist in charge of making the flange attachment fittings discovered that "investment casting" did _not_ mean more pay, a general strike ensued, nearly ending Lord Spagthorpe's dream. The engineering staff was ordered to find a solution. Realizing that the flange attachment fittings in the prototype were, in fact, stepper switch insulators from an automated telephone switch, an agreement was reached with the manufacturers, and subsequent production models had flange attachment fittings made of Bakelite. The strike was quelled when the machinist was promoted to senior accounting officer. Being a Scot, he insisted that the first five bronze fittings be installed on production bikes, rather than wastefully discard them.) At any rate, if you happen to have one of the first 5, the acid treatment will permanently fuse the mudvalve, and you'll be left with a non-running museum piece. To determine if this is in fact the case, open the valve and inspect the fittings. Since you have the unenviable position of having a frozen valve, take the bike to your local gynecologist's, after drilling two more holes in the valve housing, and have the doctor perform a laproscopic examination of the valve. If you have the Bakelite fittings, proceed as above. If you have the cast fittings, measure the housing as carefully as possible, and produce a replica. The X-ray photos should help in this. Then get a large slide hammer, and a cutting torch, and have at it. Whatever you do, _don't_ damage the cast fittings! If you do, the machine will lose much of its collector value. In fact, if you must, cut away everything but the fittings, have them mounted on tie-tack posts, and take them to the Spagthorpe Enthusiast's tent at the Isle of Man, and sell them. They're worth much more alone than with the complete Werewolf. Sad but true. >Beyond that... does anyone have access to the factory literature or know >where copies can be had? Are there any NOS mudvalve kits or (God forbid) >complete mudvalve assemblies "out there?" I haven't heard of any Nitrous-Oxide-Semiconductor parts for any Spagthorpes. >Please note that we DO have the necessary double-helix spanners as well as >the MV1 holder-fixture-jig assembly for when we get the damn thing loose. >Can anyone suggest a source for pootane gas? Yes. Get a disposable butane lighter, and stick it up... -- Jonathan E. Quist INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation jeq@i88.isc.com '71 CL450-K4 "Gleep", DoD #094 Naperville, IL So just where did George Bush get the idea that he gets to decide policy for the U.N.? Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: Warning! "Fuck" and "Shit" appear in this article Keywords: horns Message-ID: <4c#n8bq.shoun@netcom.com> Date: 20 Aug 92 06:43:29 GMT References: Sender: shoun@netcom.com Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 13 I almost forgot to ask my question. I'm trying to decide what horn to get. Everyone seems to have Fiamms but I was wondering about Spagthorpe Electronics. The two most suitable horns for a bike are the Spagthorpe Conure and the Cockatoo. Does anyone know which is louder? And is there any mail order supply for these horns? Road Rider is out of stock and they don't know when they will be getting any. "Nothing is as overrated as a bad ride, or as underrated as a good post." -- Lissa shoun@netcom.com (408) 926-0812 Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: Warning! "Fuck" and "Shit" appear in this article Message-ID: <1992Aug20.162952.3364@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> Date: 20 Aug 92 16:29:52 GMT References: <4c#n8bq.shoun@netcom.com> Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU Distribution: usa Organization: University of Virginia Lines: 18 In article <4c#n8bq.shoun@netcom.com> shoun@netcom.com (Lissa Shoun) writes: >I'm trying to decide what horn to get. >Everyone seems to have Fiamms but I was wondering about Spagthorpe >Electronics. The two most suitable horns for a bike are the Spagthorpe >Conure and the Cockatoo. i wanted the spagthorpe kennel-cough, but repeated inquiries to the venerable spagthorpe 900 number left me unsatisfied. i compromised and got the fiamms. >they don't know when they will be getting any. i think that also applies to many of us, especially the married ones. cliff weston dod# 0598 i love the fiamms. the fiamms are my friends. Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: Warning! "Fuck" and "Shit" appear in this article Message-ID: <1992Aug20.155130.29674@bnr.uk> Date: 20 Aug 92 15:51:30 GMT References: <4c#n8bq.shoun@netcom.com> Sender: news@bnr.uk (News Administrator) Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, Maidenhead, UK Lines: 44 Nntp-Posting-Host: bmdhh27 X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5 Lissa Shoun (shoun@netcom.com) wrote: : I almost forgot to ask my question. I'm trying to decide what horn to get. : Everyone seems to have Fiamms but I was wondering about Spagthorpe : Electronics. The two most suitable horns for a bike are the Spagthorpe : Conure and the Cockatoo. Does anyone know which is louder? And is there : any mail order supply for these horns? Road Rider is out of stock and : they don't know when they will be getting any. : : "Nothing is as overrated as a bad ride, or as underrated as a good post." : : : -- : Lissa : shoun@netcom.com (408) 926-0812 Lisa, Liza, Lease her or whatever.... Spagthorpe Empire Electronics Company Ltd., Cambridge, England manufacture a range of horns, but only a few of them are suitable for fitment onto today's lightweight low capacity low voltage motorcycles. The Cockatoo, with the pink noise filter attachment and optional NOS cylinder is indeed the loudest of the smaller motorcycle-friendly horns but the best one, by far, is the Spagthorpe Harbinger. It does have a few drawbacks though, mainly the 8kV at 66A required to get the thing into it's excited state and the 1/11 perch diameter horn mouth. Only one attempt was ever made to mount one of these awesome behemoths onto a motorcycle, a much modified Ariel Square 4 S8. The engine was supercharged to provide enough power for the Lucas RT/3J8 generator (taken from a WWII Pathfinder Lancaster) but still limited the top speed to 55MPH (not a problem for you Colonials, I hear). The machine was taken to it's top speed by Tommy Cooper, (part-time magician/comedian) the respected pioneering ex-jet plane test-pilot who then activated the main circuit breaker to 'sound the horn'. Unfortunately, the power of the horn was such that the Ariel was brought to a complete halt - unlike it's rider, poor Tommy, who was flung violently over the bars and onto the concrete. For long afterwards, he bore the scars on his head, finding that only by wearing an Egyptian Fez could he hope to hide them. Oh, and all his magic tricks went wrong too. The Spagthorpe Harbinger was rescued from the machine and now is used by Dundee City Ciuncil to announce the arrival of haars. Nick (the Historically Correct Biker DoD 1069 MAG 73516 No wife, no girl friend but TWO bikes!!!! I keep smiling! :) From emoryu1!emory!gatech!destroyer!uunet!vuse.vanderbilt.edu!dab Fri Oct 2 14:46:35 1992 Path: emoryu1!emory!gatech!destroyer!uunet!vuse.vanderbilt.edu!dab From: dab@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (The Nashville Flash) Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: Stupid Questions Summary: If ya ask a stoopid question... Keywords: Spagthorpe Message-ID: Date: 1 Oct 92 20:03:32 GMT References: <1afidjINN35f@cs.utexas.edu> Sender: news@vuse.vanderbilt.edu Organization: Vanderbilt University School of Engineering, Nashville, TN, USA Lines: 17 Originator: dab@space3 Nntp-Posting-Host: space3 In article <1afidjINN35f@cs.utexas.edu> osborn@cs.utexas.edu (John Howard Osborn) writes: >In no particular order, here are some things I've been wondering about... > [a bunch of swell "hmmmmm..." questions deleted...] > >6. What was the ugliest motorcycle ever produced? (New, not ratted out.) That is an easy one to answer... the Spagthorpe Pug. This bike was so ugly, that (those of you who are old enough to have voted for/against Carter will remember) Joan Claybrook had the NHTSA take the tail light off it and make it ride-able (sort of) backwards. This is proof-positive that it was the ugliest bike and comes from the maxim, "If my dog was that ugly, I'd shave his ass and teach him to walk backwards." ============================================================================= "No hour of life is lost that is spent in the barber chair." - J.Spagthorpe The Nashville Flash - dab@vuse.vanderbilt.edu - DoD # 412 From emoryu1!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!laidbak!jeq Mon Dec 7 13:34:53 1992 Path: emoryu1!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!laidbak!jeq From: jeq@i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. Quist) Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: 2-strokes (was: Re: REQUEST: short fella has a question or two... Message-ID: <1992Dec03.224718.23839@i88.isc.com> Date: 3 Dec 92 22:47:18 GMT References: <1992Dec1.142427.7449@balrog.dseg.ti.com> <1992Dec2.125805.21356@bnr.uk> Sender: usenet@i88.isc.com (Usenet News) Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL Lines: 42 Nntp-Posting-Host: birdie.i88.isc.com In article blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com writes: >datasbld@bnr.ca (Datasbuild) writes: >>In article <1992Dec1.142427.7449@balrog.dseg.ti.com> keith@balrog.dseg.ti.com (Keith A. Schauer) writes: >>>In article <1992Nov26.153626.877@bnr.uk> datasbld@bnr.ca (Datasbuild) writes: > >>>>: :- Does the date 1066 mean anything to you? > >>>Magna Carta > >>That is not correct. Where was it signed, by the way? > >At the bottom. > >(If I didn't say it, Jonathan would have had to. :-) Yeah, well, us colonists must do what we must. (I must! I must!) >But didn't the signers of the Magna Carta ride 4-strokes? Being those >upper-crust landowner types and all? In the facsimile of the Magna Carta I've got (in the back of my "Webster's New International Dictionary, 3rd Edition") one of the signator's quaky scrawls very clearly spells "Spag." I'm guessing this was Lord Wembly Spagthorpe - no doubt, his contemporaries would have been riding one of his steam-powered "wiener-steamers" (so called because the lack of ducting on the exaust led to, er, warm moist parts if the rider sat at idle for too long). (Eventually, the term "wiener-steamer" transmuted to "wiener-dog", due to the barking sound that was produced when the exaust ports opened during full-throttle operation. Because of the general shape of the cylindrical boiler, the name was stuck. This led to the tradition of later Spagthorpe designs being named after dogs.) As the later versions of the wiener-steamers had dual-action pistons (power being applied in both directions) they would be correctly termed "1-strokes". -- Jonathan E. Quist INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation jeq@i88.isc.com '71 CL450-K4 "Gleep", DoD #094 Naperville, IL There are many things a person should experience in a lifetime. Among them are an infant's first cry, and an infant's first laugh. From emoryu1!emory!europa.asd.contel.com!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!vuse.vanderbilt.edu!dab Tue Jan 5 16:28:22 1993 Path: emoryu1!emory!europa.asd.contel.com!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!vuse.vanderbilt.edu!dab From: dab@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Flash) Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Spagthorpe Chihuahua? Message-ID: Date: 4 Jan 93 23:31:53 GMT Sender: news@vuse.vanderbilt.edu Organization: Vanderbilt University School of Engineering, Nashville, TN, USA Lines: 6 Originator: dab@space3 Nntp-Posting-Host: space3 Is it TRUE?! I heard thru the barleyvine that J. Spagthorpe is coming out with some sort of pocket-rocket ala YSR50 or GSXR80 or CBRR90RRR. Has anyone SEEN one at any of the bike shows? Specs! Whaddare the specs? ============================================================================== "Far away is far away only if you don't go there." - O Povo, Fortaleza, Brazil Flash - dab@vuse.vanderbilt.edu - DoD # 412 From emoryu1!emory!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!elektro!charlie Tue Jan 5 16:28:23 1993 Path: emoryu1!emory!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!elektro!charlie From: charlie@elektro.cmhnet.org (Charlie Smith) Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: Spagthorpe Chihuahua? Message-ID: <1993Jan5.142018.15708@elektro.cmhnet.org> Date: 5 Jan 93 14:20:18 GMT References: Organization: Why do you suspect that? Lines: 54 In article dab@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Flash) writes: >Is it TRUE?! I heard thru the barleyvine that J. Spagthorpe is coming out >with some sort of pocket-rocket ala YSR50 or GSXR80 or CBRR90RRR. Has anyone >SEEN one at any of the bike shows? Specs! Whaddare the specs? Hey Flash! This was covered in the last BMW Riders Association (RA) On The Level mag ... don't you remember their comments on the Cologne show coverage done by the MOA people - RA made a big issue out of MOA not covering the Chihuahua! According the OTL, the Chihuahua is based on an 1800cc version of the new BMW twin and has a Maseratti Birdcage type space frame modified to use the drivetrain as an integral frame component. It was estimated that the frame is built up from approximately 8347 soda straw sized titanium tubelets, each being between 1" and 5" long; this results in two major frame components that together weigh in at 2.853 Kg. This bike also had a mono-post trailing arm *front* suspension with 100% anti-dive/anti-rise geometry built in! It was able to do this without resorting to any suspension movement snubbers or other weight adding components. The Chihuahua is reported to have a fairing laminated out of radar frequency (10.5 and 24 GHz) absorbant multilayered foam, such that the bike will not reflect any more radar signal than an aluminum framed Trek bicycle, this results in a 80% reduction in the range at which the bike can be clocked by police radar; this is assuming that the rider does not have metal framed eyeglasses. As an aid in direction finding the Chihuahua will be equipped with dual front disk brakes, pre-drilled at the factory, with a red tinge on the left disk rotor and a green tinge on the right rotor. The rotors will be acceptably large to permit engagement with San Francisco cable car tracks to allow cornering on rails when desired. Overall, the Chihuahua weighs in at 241.3 lbs, and with the nominal horsepower figure of 162 that was quoted for the 1800cc twin the bike should actually arrive on the showroom floor with acceptable performance capabilities. It is estimated that the Chihuahua will out accelerate a P-51 Mustang from rest to any speed achievable by the Chihuahua; and further, the Cologne show exhibit had an action film showing that the Chihuahua could accelerate downhill quite a bit faster than acceleration achieved by an object in free fall. The Chihuahua included options of things such as the Venison-Be-Gon (V-B-G) {tm} deer whistle, a holder for the DoD auctioned bra, and a cellular phone based SPAM system to permit realtime posts to wreck.motorcycles on the front and rear tire pressures. OTL went on to say that word on the street says the Chihuahua will show up in dealer showrooms early in spring of 1993. Charlie Smith charlie@elektro.cmhnet.org csmith@dsac.dla.mil whois ces10 MOA# 52888, RA# 15633, DoD# 0709, AMA# 574722, Buckey Beemers 411, BK Ohio V BMW K1100-LT, R80-GS/PD, R27, Triumph TR6 Soon to include Spagthorpe Chihuahua Columbus, Ohio From emoryu1!emory!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uunet!news.tek.com!tekig7!tekig6!jearls Tue Jan 5 16:28:23 1993 Path: emoryu1!emory!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uunet!news.tek.com!tekig7!tekig6!jearls From: jearls@tekig6.PEN.TEK.COM (Jeffrey David Earls) Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: Spagthorpe Chihuahua? Message-ID: <8146@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM> Date: 5 Jan 93 15:31:14 GMT References: Sender: news@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR. Lines: 19 In article dab@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Flash) writes: >Is it TRUE?! I heard thru the barleyvine that J. Spagthorpe is coming out >with some sort of pocket-rocket ala YSR50 or GSXR80 or CBRR90RRR. Has anyone >SEEN one at any of the bike shows? Specs! Whaddare the specs? Ahh! The Spagthorpe Chihuahua! One of those fine specimens appeared at the Great Pacific Northwest Dryside Gather last August. It must have been a pre-production version. Neat looking little critter. I had a friend take plenty of pictures. Unfortunately, after developing the film, I discovered that in each case a Toyota truck had been parked directly in front of the Spagthorpe. Such is life. =============================================================================== |Jeff Earls jearls@tekig6.pen.tek.com | DoD #0530 KotTG WMTC AMA | |'89 FJ1200 - Millennium Falcon | Squid Factor: 3.67 and climbing... | |'86 VF500F - Kit bike | "Hit the button Chewie!"... Han Solo | If you obey all the rules, you miss all the fun. From emory!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!cogsci.Berkeley.EDU!robinson Fri Jan 29 13:47:59 1993 Path: emory!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!cogsci.Berkeley.EDU!robinson From: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu (Michael Robinson) Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: All-wheel drive??? Date: 22 Jan 1993 02:37:55 GMT Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley Lines: 42 Distribution: world Message-ID: <1jnmm3$qkg@agate.berkeley.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu Originator: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU I was talking to a friend the other day, and he told me about a motorcycle show he went to a while back. He claims he saw an old Spagthorpe prototype that had a driven front wheel. It was a water-cooled bike, but instead of a radiator, it had sort of a boiler affair. They ran steam lines down the front forks to a steam turbine in the front hub (the hub apparently looked sort of like a front drum brake type deal). The clever part was the centrifugal vane advance on the turbine which would adjust the vanes for maximum torque when stopped, and maximum power at speed. I was sort of skeptical, but he explained the reasoning behind it: an internal combustion engine is only about 70% efficient, with the rest being lost to heat. If you only get 50% efficiency out of the steam turbine, that's still 15% power that would otherwise blow away in the wind. 15% power to the front wheel may not sound like much, but proportionally, it's similar to the amount of efficiency you get out of a rear brake. So, when you look at it that way it doesn't seem so unreasonable. The goal behind the driven front wheel design was similar to that of 4-wheel drive cars--increased cornering stability, and better control on surfaces with poor traction. I was concerned about the effect of the additional unsprung weight in the front wheel, but my friend just said, "Hey, it's a Spagthorpe." Good point. Apparently these bikes were never made in quantity, because the cost of British union steamfitters would have made production bikes prohibitively expensive. My friend said he had some pictures he could show me, but he just moved and hasn't unpacked them yet. I was just wondering if anyone else has seen or heard about this bike. The idea sounds sort of interesting; I'm just wondering how practical it would be. I mean, it sounds like some of the things Honda has come up with. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Robinson UUCP: ucbvax!cogsci!robinson INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu From emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!gatech!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!omicron!groh Fri Jan 29 13:48:31 1993 Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Path: emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!gatech!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!omicron!groh From: groh@omicron.cs.fsu.edu (Jim Groh) Subject: Re: All-wheel drive??? Message-ID: <1993Jan22.151141.24959@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> Sender: news@mailer.cc.fsu.edu (Usenet News File Owner) Nntp-Posting-Host: omicron.cs.fsu.edu Reply-To: groh@nu.cs.fsu.edu Organization: Florida State University Computer Science Department References: <1jnmm3$qkg@agate.berkeley.edu> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 15:11:41 GMT Lines: 30 In article <1jnmm3$qkg@agate.berkeley.edu> robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu (Michael Robinson) writes: >I was talking to a friend the other day, and he told me about a motorcycle >show he went to a while back. > >He claims he saw an old Spagthorpe prototype that had a driven front wheel. >It was a water-cooled bike, but instead of a radiator, it had sort of a >boiler affair. They ran steam lines down the front forks to a steam Absolutely correct, it was the Spagthorpe Indomitable. It was developed during the time that BNG (British National Group) owned Spagthorpe, shortly before the orignal family bought it back. It was developed by Wilhelm Grotonwicke Spagthorpe, AKA Willie G. Spagthorpe, as an answer to the Japanese invasion of hi-tech bikes. The market response was something less then enthusiastic and only 4 additional units were producted. (I think Malcomn Forbes had one, one blew up on the bonnie salt flats when the cooling water became contaminated, and the other two lost in the sands of time.) I had a picture of the prototype, but alas it has faded with time (a lot like me), and the picture just won't scan. >-- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Michael Robinson UUCP: ucbvax!cogsci!robinson > INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu -- Jim Groh groh@sig.cs.fsu.edu | DoD #0356 | Hog# 0437643 |new improved 1959 XLH 900 ** 1982 FXR ** 1989 XLH 883 ** 1990 XLH 1200 | smaller sig From emory!gatech!destroyer!ncar!news Fri Jan 29 13:48:48 1993 Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Path: emory!gatech!destroyer!ncar!news From: jsloan@ncar.ucar.edu (John Sloan) Subject: Re: All-wheel drive??? Message-ID: <1993Jan22.164530.26648@ncar.ucar.edu> Sender: news@ncar.ucar.edu (USENET Maintenance) Organization: Scientific Computing Division/NCAR Boulder, CO References: <1993Jan22.151141.24959@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:45:30 GMT Lines: 59 In article <1jnmm3$qkg@agate.berkeley.edu> robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu (Michael Robinson) writes: >It was a water-cooled bike, but instead of a radiator, it had sort of a >boiler affair. They ran steam lines down the front forks to a steam From article <1993Jan22.151141.24959@mailer.cc.fsu.edu>, by groh@omicron.cs.fsu.edu (Jim Groh): > Absolutely correct, it was the Spagthorpe Indomitable. I take it that this was a completely different design from the one that had the small radial-engines, not unlike miniture versions of those used in WWII vintage aircraft, acting as both motive force and as front and rear wheels? I recall that they had several problems with this design: o Unsprung weight was a problem, although the center of gravity was extremely low. This model was not fitted with a center stand, a side stand, or any kind of stand. Apparently it could easily be balanced to stand upright even on its narrow tires with no other means of support. o The seals around the axles had a tendency to leak gasoline. A suitable gasket material and lubricant was never developed. This ultimately led to the cancellation of the plan to store gasoline in the tires, rather than in the gas tank, more of a fuel bladder really, that doubled as the rider's seat, although this had the advantage of the rider's weight pressurizing the fuel system. However, the bike never idled well unless someone was sitting on it. o Fuel was fed through the frame down through the front forks and the rear shocks, which made the bike especially hazardous in a crash. However, one-way valves and natural suspension action served as an effective fuel pump. o The tires frequently melted due to high cylinder head temperatures. I know that water jackets were tried briefly, which worked as long one did not want to turn, and as long as speeds were low. Centripedal force apparently forced water high into the cylinder heads and made its return to the spinning radiators which stuck out on either side of the axles problematic. o At high speeds, the spark plugs were frequently thrown from their holes, which frequently entangled the spark plug wires in the spinning engine. This resulted in frequently reboring of the holes to install new plugs. o There were several lawsuits, I recall, from pedestrians who were clipped by the rather wide (and hot) "wheels" when the machine was ridden through town. Not to mention the few that were flayed by loose spark plug wires and the still-attached plugs. A fascinating experiment, one which the march, or at least the stagger, of technology will surely eventually make feasible. Rumors abound that the new Yamaha RADD forkless front suspension is a first step in a secret joint development plan between Yamaha and Suzuki to revive this design with a Wankel rotary engine. -- John Sloan "Since I've given up hope, +1 303 497 1243 NCAR/SCD I feel much better." Fax +1 303 497 1137 Boulder CO 80307-3000 USA jsloan@ncar.ucar.edu Logical Disclaimer: belong(opinions,jsloan). belong(opinions,_):-!,fail. From emory!gatech!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!biosci!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!warwick!str-ccsun!strath-cs!bnr.co.uk!bmdhh243!npet Fri Jan 29 13:49:33 1993 Path: emory!gatech!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!biosci!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!warwick!str-ccsun!strath-cs!bnr.co.uk!bmdhh243!npet From: npet@bnr.ca (Nick Pettefar) Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: All-wheel drive??? Message-ID: <1993Jan25.175935.7067@bnr.uk> Date: 25 Jan 93 17:59:35 GMT References: <1jnmm3$qkg@agate.berkeley.edu> Sender: news@bnr.uk (News Administrator) Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, Maidenhead, UK Lines: 49 Nntp-Posting-Host: bmdhh27 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Michael Robinson (robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu) wrote: : I was talking to a friend the other day, and he told me about a motorcycle : show he went to a while back. Yes, I've been to one of these. Too many bikes though. : He claims he saw an old Spagthorpe prototype that had a driven front wheel. The idea was later stolen by Yamaha for an experimental trail bike. This bike used a cable drive to the front instead of the steam drive originated by Spagthorpe. One of the drawbacks of the cable drive is that if the front brake is applied, the cable drive tries to straighten out - resulting in the rider being thrown violently from the bike. This was why the design was limited to dirt-bikes, the riders are (more) used to being thrown from their bikes and don't complain so much. : The goal behind the driven front wheel design was similar to that of : 4-wheel drive cars--increased cornering stability, and better control : on surfaces with poor traction. Fine, fine but see above. The steam-powered front-wheeled bike was fairly dangerous and certainly too dangerous to be used in the States where it's citisens have that nasty tendency to sue somebody everytime they encounter even a reasonable amount of danger. The Spagthorpe was entered in the Ulster Trials but the local Police confiscated it, thinking it a device of the IRA. : I was concerned about the effect of the additional unsprung weight in : the front wheel, but my friend just said, "Hey, it's a Spagthorpe." : Good point. Yes, of course. Unsprung weight is a _good_ thing. It helps keep the tyre on the road and the heavier the weight, the larger the contact patch. : Apparently these bikes were never made in quantity, because : the cost of British union steamfitters would have made production bikes : prohibitively expensive. This is just provocative right-wing slander. : -- : Michael Robinson Nick (the Histo/erical Biker) DoD 1069 Steamfitters & Hackers Union. M'Lud. "Chuff chuff" From emory!gatech!udel!darwin.sura.net!news.Vanderbilt.Edu!vuse.vanderbilt.edu!dab Fri Jan 29 14:07:58 1993 Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Path: emory!gatech!udel!darwin.sura.net!news.Vanderbilt.Edu!vuse.vanderbilt.edu!dab From: dab@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Flash) Subject: Tank Bag Monopole Magnets Message-ID: Summary: was: Re: Courier bag: Do you have one? Originator: dab@space3 Keywords: Spagthorpe Sender: news@vuse.vanderbilt.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: space3 Organization: Vanderbilt University School of Engineering, Nashville, TN, USA References: <1993Jan22.212815.461@pages.com> Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 20:05:33 GMT Lines: 31 In article <1993Jan22.212815.461@pages.com> bigdog!jon (Jon Wright) writes: >I asked somebody at MotoPort about this and they said the ceramic magnets, >which were more powerful than the previous metalic ones, were also polarized or >uni-directional or something, which prevented screwing up your disks and cards. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The Monopole Magnet(tm) was first pioneered by Jillian Spaghtorpe, Lord Julian's sister. In theory, the single pole magnet extends its magnetic field in only one direction. This enables the magnet to "stick" to the tank while not erasing credit card stripes, disks, et cetera. However, if one removes the bag from the tank, the mag field reaches out to infinity. If not pointed toward the center of the earth, the magnets on the bag become stealth degaussers, destroying hysterisis in oxide coatings for hundreds of feet in the direction in which it is pointed. The material used today is a special psychoceramic, said to be invented by a crack-pot rogue inventor. The initial project proved a failure when Jillian discovered that Julian was using aluminium petrol tanks. Despondent at her wasted effort, she turned a water cooled experimental high power monopole on herself. Having ridden slowly and taken Geritol, her blood was iron rich and her entire brain was degaussed. She remains a sad but drooling shadow of her former self, whose speech is only intelligible to Stephan Hawking. >I guess the next obvious question is, "How do you know if they're polarized or >not?" Just look for the JBS logo on the magnet itself. Or else, turn it around and see if it still sticks to the tank. ============================================================================== "Far away is far away only if you don't go there." - O Povo, Fortaleza, Brazil Flash - dab@vuse.vanderbilt.edu - DoD # 412 From emory!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!pipex!demon!morgan.demon.co.uk!tony Tue Feb 2 13:25:19 1993 Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles From: tony@morgan.demon.co.uk (Tony Kidson) Path: emory!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!pipex!demon!morgan.demon.co.uk!tony Subject: Wartime Spagthorpe Distribution: world Organization: Not much. Reply-To: tony@morgan.demon.co.uk X-Mailer: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.18) Lines: 32 Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 16:18:37 +0000 Message-ID: <728065117snz@morgan.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk Spagthorpe News Seeing reference here to the flying of motorcycles, reminded me of what an amazing find I made the other day. I was in the Public Records office looking through some old patents that had recently been de-classified under the 50-year rule. When I came across the name S. J. Spagthorpe on one of them. "Could this be...?" I thought and pulled it out to inspect. Indeed it turned out to be a patent that had been filed by a little known younger cousin of the Spagthorpe family showing a Motorcycle for landing despatch riders over the top of troops occupying a beach. It was equipped with what appeared to be the equivalent of J.A.T.O packs which were not detailed as they were merely referred to as the subject of another patent. The accompanying figures clearly outlined a bike based on the pre-war Thunderer prototype that vas never produced owing to the intervention of hostilities. The main features seemed to be large flying surfaces either for lift or control attached to the front suspension which appeared to have a wishbone spring reinforcing the girder style front fork. Excitedly, I took the document to be copied and handed it to the clerk. She took it out to the back, I presumed to copy it. When she returned it was with a grim faced little man who informed me that the document had been declassified in error and it would be better for me if I forgot that I had ever seen it. I thought that I had even better let the net know just in case anything happens to me. Tony +-----------------+-------------------------------+--------------------------+ | Tony Kidson |`morgan' is an 8MB 486/33 Cat-| Voice +44 81 466 5127 | | Morgan Towers, |Warmer with a 670 MB Hard Disk.| E-Mail | | Morgan Road, |It resides at Morgan Towers in| tony@morgan.demon.co.uk | | Bromley, |Beautiful Down Town Bromley. | tny@cix.compulink.co.uk | | England BR1 3QE |Honda ST1100 ==*== DoD# 0801 | 100024.301@compuserve.com| +=================+===============================+==========================+ From emory!gatech!swrinde!news.dell.com!natinst.com!cs.utexas.edu!csc.ti.com!tilde.csc.ti.com!m2.dseg.ti.com!ernest!cmptrc!neal Thu Feb 18 13:49:27 1993 Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Path: emory!gatech!swrinde!news.dell.com!natinst.com!cs.utexas.edu!csc.ti.com!tilde.csc.ti.com!m2.dseg.ti.com!ernest!cmptrc!neal From: neal@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Neal Howard) Subject: Re: Gyroscopic stability Message-ID: Sender: neal@cmptrc.lonestar.org Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1993 20:36:17 GMT Organization: CompuTrac Inc., Richardson TX Lines: 43 In article <109872@netnews.upenn.edu> awhite@widget.seas.upenn.edu (Andrew White) writes: >Sorry for the lack of flamage and for starting a new topic! > >Anyway, I was reading up on the "theory" of motorcycling and >countersteering, and I am under the impression that the spinning >wheels of a motorcycle cause a gyroscopic effect which is what >allows you to keep your balance on two wheels. >If this is true, wouldn't it be possible to add a flywheel to >a bike which would spin while you are at low speed or stopped? >If done right, you would never have to take your boots off >the pegs -- the spinning flywheel would keep the bike upright >when the real wheels were spinning to slowly to allow you >to balance. > >Has this been done? Lord Julian used such a flywheel on the Spagthorpe "Irish Setter", a bike he hoped to market in Ireland to those riders who had a bit too much ale at the local pub and would forget to put their feet down when stopping. It was a rather ingenious design, with the flywheel (which also had attached a type of clutch) housed inside a hollow rear wheel (looking much like a FatBoy's disc rear wheel from a distance, only much thicker). The idea was that the rider could roll up to a stoplight, disengage the flywheel- to-rear-wheel clutch and just keep the revs up to keep the machine standing upright without putting nary a foot down. The only problem was that the typical biker for whom this design was intended would also forget that he was still in 4th gear at the stop and would simply engage the clutch, promptly killing the engine which would then abruptly halt the spinning of the flywheel, resulting in the bike falling over and breaking the rider's left leg on the way down (don't ask me why they always fell to the left, I really don't understand all the fizzicks involved ;-). Needless to say, this design idea was shelved and the only two Irish Setter prototypes ever built were most likely dismantled so that the depleted uranium flywheels could be used to make the transmission cases for Spagthorpe Bulldog. -- ============================================================================= Neal Howard '91 XLH-1200 DoD #686 CompuTrac, Inc (Richardson, TX) doh #0000001200 |355o33| neal@cmptrc.lonestar.org Std disclaimer: My opinions are mine, not CompuTrac's. "Let us learn to dream, gentlemen, and then perhaps we shall learn the truth." -- August Kekule' (1890) ============================================================================= From emory!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!mstar!n8emr!elektro!charlie Thu Feb 25 13:21:24 1993 Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Path: emory!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!mstar!n8emr!elektro!charlie From: charlie@elektro.cmhnet.org (Charlie Smith) Subject: Re: Gyroscopic stability Message-ID: <1993Feb21.034026.8796@elektro.cmhnet.org> Organization: Why do you suspect that? References: <109872@netnews.upenn.edu> <1993Feb18.152214.6160@i88.isc.com> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 93 03:40:26 GMT Lines: 53 In article <1993Feb18.152214.6160@i88.isc.com> jeq@i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. Quist) writes: > ... description of Spagthorpe Pointer saved offline ... > >One bit of controversy concerning the history of the Pointer was >strangely enough the colour of the thing. Lord Julian wanted to >break with tradition and paint it a bright red. The more conservative >Lord Beamish Spagthorpe was furious, and demanded that the traditional >British Racing Green be used. Portions of the Pointer were repainted, >but the development was halted before this work was completed. >Because of the unique Yuletide color scheme, and because many of >the parts were scavenged from the two Irish Setter prototypes, >Spagthorpe employees were rumoured to refer to the Pointer derisively >as "that bloody Point-Setter". It should be noted that this was one of the early prototype models that had a bright red brake rotor on the left front, and had a British Racing Green brake rotor on the right front. From experimental evidence gathered from this chance occurance, the first hypothesis of the principle of the red/green brake rotor theory was made. >The rift between Lord Beamish and Lord Julian continued to grow, >however, and aside from some minor consultations and statesmanship >used in the development of the WarDog and Desert Fox, the Pointer marked >Lord Beamish Spagthorpe's last direct involvement in the development >of Spagthorpe motorcycles. When Lord Beamish Spagthorpe left the Spagthorpe Werkes, he stored his personal files in the under-under vault chamber, knowledge of which was of course confined to just Lord Beamish and Lord Julian. Lord Julian, naturally did not want any of Lord Beamish's material to see the light of day, at least in a favorable light. Thus, the initial documentation of the red/green brake rotor phenomenum was lost to science for these last several years. It wasn't until riders began to drill their own brake rotors that more natural light began to be shed upon things, being as the new drilled rotor holes let considerably more light on things - aided certainly by their also being lighter, as it were. It is believed that this new light upon things at the Spagthorpe Werke helped considerably in the decision made by Lord Julian Spagthorpe to permit publication of the Engineering Tome related to the red/green brake rotor theory! Charlie Smith charlie@elektro.cmhnet.org csmith@dsac.dla.mil whois ces10 DoD #0709 doh #0000000004 & AMA, MOA, RA, Buckey Beemers, BK Ohio V BMW K1100-LT, R80-GS/PD, R27, Triumph TR6 1KSI=22.85 KotdohL KotWitDoDL Columbus, Ohio USA From emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uwm.edu!linac!att!mcdchg!laidbak!jeq Thu Feb 25 13:22:42 1993 Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Path: emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uwm.edu!linac!att!mcdchg!laidbak!jeq From: jeq@i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. Quist) Subject: Re: Gyroscopic stability Message-ID: <1993Feb22.154709.3540@i88.isc.com> Sender: usenet@i88.isc.com (Usenet News) Nntp-Posting-Host: birdie.i88.isc.com Organization: Lachman Technology, Incorporated, Naperville, IL References: <1993Feb18.152214.6160@i88.isc.com> <1993Feb21.034026.8796@elektro.cmhnet.org> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1993 15:47:09 GMT Lines: 28 In article <1993Feb21.034026.8796@elektro.cmhnet.org> charlie@elektro.cmhnet.org (Charlie Smith) writes: >In article <1993Feb18.152214.6160@i88.isc.com> jeq@i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. Quist) writes: >>The rift between Lord Beamish and Lord Julian continued to grow, >>however, and aside from some minor consultations and statesmanship >>used in the development of the WarDog and Desert Fox, the Pointer marked >>Lord Beamish Spagthorpe's last direct involvement in the development >>of Spagthorpe motorcycles. Observant readers will notice that I misspoke here - in fact, Lord Beamish was the driving force behind the development of the Bulldog, which post-dated the Pointer and Setter. >It is believed that this new light upon things at the Spagthorpe Werke >helped considerably in the decision made by Lord Julian Spagthorpe to >permit publication of the Engineering Tome related to the red/green >brake rotor theory! I wonder if the red/green thing had anything to do with the Naval background of the family? Some rumours indicate a bastard connection between one of Lord Beamish's ancestors and Sir Joseph Porter, K.C.B. (the ruler of the Queen's Navy)... -- Jonathan E. Quist Lachman Technology, Incorporated jeq@lachman.com '71 CL450-K4 "Gleep", DoD #094 Naperville, IL __ There's nothing quite like the pitter-patter of little feet, \/ followed by the words "Daddy! Yay!" From emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!math.fu-berlin.de!mailgzrz.TU-Berlin.DE!news.netmbx.de!Germany.EU.net!mcsun!uknet!strath-cs!bnr.co.uk!bmdhh243!npet Thu Feb 25 13:23:07 1993 Path: emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!math.fu-berlin.de!mailgzrz.TU-Berlin.DE!news.netmbx.de!Germany.EU.net!mcsun!uknet!strath-cs!bnr.co.uk!bmdhh243!npet From: npet@bnr.ca (Nick Pettefar) Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: Gyroscopic stability Message-ID: <1993Feb22.171542.6691@bnr.uk> Date: 22 Feb 93 17:15:42 GMT References: <1993Feb21.034026.8796@elektro.cmhnet.org> Sender: news@bnr.uk (News Administrator) Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, Maidenhead, UK Lines: 127 Nntp-Posting-Host: bmdhh27 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Charlie Smith, on the Sun, 21 Feb 93 03:40:26 GMT wibbled: : In article <1993Feb18.152214.6160@i88.isc.com> jeq@i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. Quist) writes: : > : ... description of Spagthorpe Pointer saved offline ... : > : >One bit of controversy concerning the history of the Pointer was : >strangely enough the colour of the thing. Lord Julian wanted to : >break with tradition and paint it a bright red. The more conservative : >Lord Beamish Spagthorpe was furious, and demanded that the traditional : >British Racing Green be used. Portions of the Pointer were repainted, : >but the development was halted before this work was completed. : >Because of the unique Yuletide color scheme, and because many of : >the parts were scavenged from the two Irish Setter prototypes, : >Spagthorpe employees were rumoured to refer to the Pointer derisively : >as "that bloody Point-Setter". : It should be noted that this was one of the early prototype models : that had a bright red brake rotor on the left front, and had a British : Racing Green brake rotor on the right front. From experimental evidence : gathered from this chance occurance, the first hypothesis of the principle : of the red/green brake rotor theory was made. This is pure American Male Cow Manure. The Red/Green brake _disc_ colourung scheme was introduced on the far earlier Spagthorpe Rounddog. This was an experimental machine featuring the then new hydraulic system. Oil was a late addition to the system, they first used water with special patented release valves to vent the steam when the system heated up under 'unrestrained' braking. Demonstrating the machine to a friend of his, the Shah of Imonaq who was interested in a fleet purchase for his personal police force, Lord Julian was embarrassed by his friend's remarks about the left disc glowing a bright red. He quickly ad libbed about their new colour direction coding scheme. On the pretext of making an urgent telephone call, he ran to the garage and stopped the rider from riding back until the other disc was painted a glowing green. This disc's caliper was disconnected so as not to burn the paint, and the bike was then ridden past the Shah in the opposite direction to show off the green disc. Alas, all this was to no avail, as the Shah's brother had shown himself up as the traitor, he in fact later turned out to be, by acceptong rather a large bribe and signing up his country up for a large fleet of a rather old fashioned looking and plain motorbikes manufactured by a relatively new company called Vincent HRD. (Apparently they were never used and are reported to be languishing, still in their greased tarpaulin and hemp packings, in a warehouse somewhere in what was the old empire of Imonaq. : >The rift between Lord Beamish and Lord Julian continued to grow, : >however, and aside from some minor consultations and statesmanship : >used in the development of the WarDog and Desert Fox, the Pointer marked : >Lord Beamish Spagthorpe's last direct involvement in the development : >of Spagthorpe motorcycles. : When Lord Beamish Spagthorpe left the Spagthorpe Werkes, he stored his : personal files in the under-under vault chamber, knowledge of which was : of course confined to just Lord Beamish and Lord Julian. Lord Julian, : naturally did not want any of Lord Beamish's material to see the light : of day, at least in a favorable light. Thus, the initial documentation : of the red/green brake rotor phenomenum was lost to science for these : last several years. It wasn't until riders began to drill their own : brake rotors that more natural light began to be shed upon things, being : as the new drilled rotor holes let considerably more light on things - : aided certainly by their also being lighter, as it were. Is the word 'Werkes' some kind of strange Americanism? The famous Spagthorpe Motorbike Works was known throughout our land as one of the finest places of fair employment to attend. Often they gave the workers the opportunity of working extra hours for the exchange of a Sunday afternoon off, and The Work's restaurant was reputed to sell only the finest spam, tripe and spotted-dick. During the Second World War, The Works was hit by a doodle-bug which penetrated through to the foundations of the building, turning the contents of the vaults into expensive rubble. At least, this was the findings of the exploration team, headed by the brave Lord Julian himself, after utilising nearby potholes to access the vaults as the ruins of The Works were far too dangerous to venture into. Thus the extent of Lord Beamish's involvement with the Only recently have the vaults been uncovered. Upon doing so, the patented details (The London originals were lost in the midst of one of the fiercest battles in The Blitz) were uncovered, and motorcycle manufacture all around the world were horrified to find that they had, albeit unintentionally, violating the Spagthorpe Patented Disc Braking System. The way around this, as worked out by a United Nations Patent Infringement Committee Keeping, (UNPICK), was to change the details of the system by various fenestrations of the disc. Hence the various holes that have appeared in all discs for the last ten years or so. Lord Julian's daughter, Lady Diana, has been receiving, rightfully, the monies due from the royalties, and is now at last able to start reviving the famous Spagthorpe marque. I will post details as they become available. : It is believed that this new light upon things at the Spagthorpe Werke : helped considerably in the decision made by Lord Julian Spagthorpe to : permit publication of the Engineering Tome related to the red/green : brake rotor theory! Another American rumoUr. Somebody obviously read one press report too many. Admittedly the press were present when Lord Julian made his face-saving remark about the glowing disc, but the family thought that they had managed to quash any reportage of this particular incident in the time-honoured British non-censoring style, so typical of First World War press releases:- "Casualties, what casualties?" Obviously there was a foreign reporter present, probably an immoral American. -- Nick (the Histerical Biker) DoD 1069 Concise Oxford Large BMW M'Lud. 0) \ []\_ \ ___[}__/-] /----\\ =/\_ OO00oo...=/_\_#|[_]/\\ \_________\_/______\_/________________________________________________________/ Like so many Americans, she was trying | Nick Pettefar, Contractor@Large. to construct a life that made sense | Currently incarcerated at BNR, from things she found in gift shops. | Maidenhead, The United Kingdom. -- Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. | '86 BMW K100RS "Kay" \________________________________________|____________________________________/ All opinions expressed by the entity Nick Pettefar are just that, his opinions. The fool upon the stage is having his hour, dust awaits... \_____________________________________________________________________________/ From emory!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mstar!n8emr!elektro!charlie Thu Feb 25 13:23:38 1993 Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Path: emory!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mstar!n8emr!elektro!charlie From: charlie@elektro.cmhnet.org (Charlie Smith) Subject: Re: Gyroscopic stability Message-ID: <1993Feb23.122128.14961@elektro.cmhnet.org> Sender: charlie@elektro.cmhnet.org (Charlie Smith) Organization: Why do you suspect that? Date: Tue, 23 Feb 93 12:21:28 GMT Lines: 33 Earlier, Irwin Arnstein recollected: > > When they added the nuclear reactor it was renamned the Spagthorpe > Airdale. Unfortunately the test rider died from radiation burns because > the Indian seat lacked lead sheilding. But wasn't that one of the design trade offs? I understood the Airdale used the brehmstralung (sp?) radiation piped through fiber optics to augment the headlight illumination. As I recall, the major difficulty experienced was that, of course, the wavelength of the brehmstralung radiation resulted in blue light. Consequently, other motorists got a bad case of cruiseritis and drove 2 MPH under the speed limit, resulting in hopelessly blocked roads. The resultant effects of this are still seen today around the central London area! Also, it should be remembered that the Lord Julian G. Spagthorpe's guidance to his designers was that the rider should be regarded as mature enough to assess his own risks in doing things such as riding motorcycles. Along with Lord Julian's continued campaign, together with MAG, against attempts to put helmet laws into effect, Lord Julian believed that riders of the Airdale would understand their own exposure to risk, along with exposure to radiation, and would wear lead lined shorts if they deemed them necessary. I understand that a pair of one-size-fits-all lead lined shorts covers - with velcro attachments - were included in the factory supplied toolkit with the Airdale. Charlie Smith charlie@elektro.cmhnet.org KotdohL KotWitDoDL 1KSPI=22.85 DoD #0709 doh #0000000004 & AMA, MOA, RA, Buckey Beemers, BK Ohio V BMW K1100-LT, R80-GS/PD, R27, Triumph TR6 Columbus, Ohio USA From emory!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.iastate.edu!ponderous.cc.iastate.edu!viking Fri Feb 26 13:27:09 1993 Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Path: emory!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.iastate.edu!ponderous.cc.iastate.edu!viking From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) Subject: Spagthorpe vs. Cushman Message-ID: Summary: This is how it went down Keywords: spagthorpe Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA Distribution: usa Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1993 11:09:47 GMT Lines: 58 standish@lowone.asd.sgi.com (Michael Standish) writes: > While a '48 Cushman is a proper scooter it is rather agriculteral >in apearence. Still they're a lot better lokking than any german scooter. >Besides everyone knows the '56 Spagthorpe blown 2 stroke was the ultimate >scooter. Ah yes, the '56 Spagthorpe. I remember drag-racing one of those, me having an el-primo '48 Cushman with the '50 Husky motor swapped in. The gearbox had been replaced with a 2-stage centrifugal clutch, all the better to reduce the lag time when shifting. That old Cushman had a good 40+ mph in her on a remotely decent day. Enter the race: No shit, there I wuz... My Cushman was idling at the stop light and here comes an all-black Spagthorpe Dauntless. It was so named because, with that high-powered supercharged 2-stroke motor and the nimble handling provided by 8" tires, both the scooter and the rider could not let a trace of fear into their hearts. Well, that was the line, anyway. I certainly wasn't afraid -- the Cushman was short on power, but my foe was wearing aviator goggles and a leather baseball cap, so I knew him to be a new rider incapable of judging the lights. When the light turned green, I let off the brake (the motor was wide open, but the Cushman brake was able to restrain all 5hp) and took the holeshot. For the next block I watched the Spagthorpe rider kick his scooter back into life, he having dumped the clutch and not bothered with getting the motor anywhere above 1500rpm. I was set for a perfect victory, and visions of champagne and scantily-clad women filled my eyes. I should have watched the mirrors instead. Suddenly I was passed by this black streak, and the Cushman sputtered to a stop. As I sat, wondering what the matter might be, I was passed by several fire trucks, apparently all headed towards that inferno three blocks distant. Only later was I able to piece together what had happend. The Spagthorpe passing me had created such a vacuum that it literally sucked the air out of the carburator on my Cushman. This is what caused it to die. Spagthorpe was never known for incredible braking, however, and post-accident investigations show that the belt-drive on the supercharger broke. Thus, the rider closed the throttle, the supercharger spun free, and at least 30psi of boost opened the carburator butterfly. This was a known trait on the supercharged models, but one most riders could live with. The poor rider of that particular model swerved around obstructions for three blocks before his wide-open motor dropped a rod and the hot oil ignited the gasoline tank, which explains the inferno. The rider, however, merely side-stepped through the EZ-Ryder frame and was unscathed. There are few surviving examples of this Scooter From Hell, and perhaps this is as it should me. Had I been able to aquire one, not only would I have won the race, I wouldn't be here today telling my tale of losing, and liking it, to a Spagthorpe Dauntless. < Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu > < ISU only censors what I read, not what I say. Don't blame them. > < USENET: Post to exotic, distant machines. Meet exciting, > < unusual people. And flame them. > From emory!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!sun-barr!olivea!isc-br!frigg!carlp Fri Feb 26 13:27:37 1993 Path: emory!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!sun-barr!olivea!isc-br!frigg!carlp From: carlp@frigg.isc-br.com (Carl Paukstis) Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: Spagthorpe vs. Cushman Keywords: spagthorpe Message-ID: Date: 21 Feb 93 05:19:06 GMT References: Sender: news@isc-br.isc-br.com (news user) Distribution: usa Organization: ISC-Bunker Ramo, An Olivetti Company Lines: 30 Nntp-Posting-Host: frigg.isc-br.com viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) writes: > No shit, there I wuz... My Cushman was idling at the stop light >and here comes an all-black Spagthorpe Dauntless. It was so named because, >with that high-powered supercharged 2-stroke motor and the nimble handling >provided by 8" tires, both the scooter and the rider could not let a >trace of fear into their hearts. Well, that was the line, anyway. I Phtweet! Paradigm shift! 15 yards from the point of the infraction, loss of down, and you get charged for a 20-second timeout, even though you don't get to take one. Anybody see a "Dauntless" breed in the Westminster show on ESPN a couple of weeks ago? Maybe there's no _rules_, but geez, if we can't keep the lore straight we've all degenerated to savagery and there is no Dog. Pretty soon we'll have metric bolts and inline 4-cyl motors. Sheesh. I recommend that the word "Dauntless" be replaced by the word "Airedale" (a dauntless breed if ever there was one) in everyone's collective memory of the above-referenced article. Thank you. The Lore Police. -- Carl Paukstis, RRR&RSG 1KQSPI: 8.80 | "If we were directed from Washington Olivetti North America / Spokane, WA | when to sow and when to reap, we would Mail: carlp@mail.spk.olivetti.com | soon want for bread." or: ...uunet!oliveb!isc-br!carlp | - Thomas Jefferson From emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uwm.edu!linac!att!mcdchg!laidbak!jeq Fri Feb 26 13:27:59 1993 Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Path: emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uwm.edu!linac!att!mcdchg!laidbak!jeq From: jeq@i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. Quist) Subject: Re: Spagthorpe vs. Cushman Message-ID: <1993Feb22.165043.4790@i88.isc.com> Keywords: spagthorpe Sender: usenet@i88.isc.com (Usenet News) Nntp-Posting-Host: birdie.i88.isc.com Organization: Lachman Technology, Incorporated, Naperville, IL References: Distribution: usa Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1993 16:50:43 GMT Lines: 40 In article carlp@frigg.isc-br.com (Carl Paukstis) writes: >viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) writes: > >> No shit, there I wuz... My Cushman was idling at the stop light >>and here comes an all-black Spagthorpe Dauntless. It was so named because, >>with that high-powered supercharged 2-stroke motor and the nimble handling >>provided by 8" tires, both the scooter and the rider could not let a >>trace of fear into their hearts. Well, that was the line, anyway. I > >Phtweet! Paradigm shift! 15 yards from the point of the infraction, >loss of down, and you get charged for a 20-second timeout, even though >you don't get to take one. > >Anybody see a "Dauntless" breed in the Westminster show on ESPN a >couple of weeks ago? Maybe there's no _rules_, but geez, if we can't >keep the lore straight we've all degenerated to savagery and there is >no Dog. Pretty soon we'll have metric bolts and inline 4-cyl motors. >Sheesh. > >I recommend that the word "Dauntless" be replaced by the word >"Airedale" (a dauntless breed if ever there was one) in everyone's >collective memory of the above-referenced article. Actually, I believe the "Dauntless" referred to is, in fact, a variant of the Spagthorpe Yorkie, which was for years a popular scooter line. The Dauntless, in fact, may have been a works racing machine, though I've lost track of all my information on the Yorkie. If any of it was posted, someone please let me know; it's not in my archives. I _do_ have a crude pencil sketch of the Yorkie, though it's been temporarily misplaced. From what I recall, the unique part of the design was that it had a single-tube tubular frame, and some sort of truly bizarre backwards Earles front suspension. I'll post more information if I find it. -- Jonathan E. Quist Lachman Technology, Incorporated jeq@lachman.com '71 CL450-K4 "Gleep", DoD #094 Naperville, IL __ There's nothing quite like the pitter-patter of little feet, \/ followed by the words "Daddy! Yay!" From emory!swrinde!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!pipex!bnr.co.uk!bmdhh243!npet Fri Feb 26 13:28:22 1993 Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Path: emory!swrinde!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!pipex!bnr.co.uk!bmdhh243!npet From: npet@bnr.ca (Nick Pettefar) Subject: Re: Spagthorpe vs. Cushman Message-ID: <1993Feb23.175218.19322@bnr.uk> Sender: news@bnr.uk (News Administrator) Nntp-Posting-Host: bmdhh27 Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, Maidenhead, UK X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] References: <1993Feb22.165043.4790@i88.isc.com> Distribution: usa Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1993 17:52:18 GMT Lines: 137 Jonathan E. Quist, on the Mon, 22 Feb 1993 16:50:43 GMT wibbled: : In article carlp@frigg.isc-br.com (Carl Paukstis) writes: : >viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) writes: : > : >> No shit, there I wuz... My Cushman was idling at the stop light : >>and here comes an all-black Spagthorpe Dauntless. It was so named because, : >>with that high-powered supercharged 2-stroke motor and the nimble handling : >>provided by 8" tires, both the scooter and the rider could not let a : >>trace of fear into their hearts. Well, that was the line, anyway. I : > : >Phtweet! Paradigm shift! 15 yards from the point of the infraction, : >loss of down, and you get charged for a 20-second timeout, even though : >you don't get to take one. : > : >Anybody see a "Dauntless" breed in the Westminster show on ESPN a : >couple of weeks ago? Maybe there's no _rules_, but geez, if we can't : >keep the lore straight we've all degenerated to savagery and there is : >no Dog. Pretty soon we'll have metric bolts and inline 4-cyl motors. : >Sheesh. : > : >I recommend that the word "Dauntless" be replaced by the word : >"Airedale" (a dauntless breed if ever there was one) in everyone's : >collective memory of the above-referenced article. : Actually, I believe the "Dauntless" referred to is, in fact, a variant : of the Spagthorpe Yorkie, which was for years a popular scooter line. : The Dauntless, in fact, may have been a works racing machine, though : I've lost track of all my information on the Yorkie. If any of it : was posted, someone please let me know; it's not in my archives. : I _do_ have a crude pencil sketch of the Yorkie, though it's been : temporarily misplaced. From what I recall, the unique part of the : design was that it had a single-tube tubular frame, and some sort of : truly bizarre backwards Earles front suspension. I'll post more : information if I find it. Digging through some old books at the Science Museum Library, one rainy day in London, I came across the following (badly written) article concerning the Yorkie scooter. I copied it for future interest and, prompted by Mr. Quist's curiosity, I dug it out. Unfortunately, a bottle of linseed oil (used for oiling cricket bats and other small furry sporting creatures) had been spilt on it and all the pictures and diagrams were ruined. The following are some relevant bits which wre still readable... Name: Yorkie Manufacturer: Spagthorpe Motorbike Works, Dulwin-on-Marsh, Ipsley. Type: Scooter. Fuel: Users choice. Primarily petrol and castor-oil. Colour: Black, chrome and grey with BRG detailing. Power: Variable, depends on fuel type. 25-175BHP. Taxation class: Bicycle. Options: Sidecar, gun-mounts (MOD use only), skids, high output generator, candy-floss whipper (very popular at fairs) extra lighting, race fairing, etc. Weight: 19 stone. Performance: Variable, depends on tuning and fuel. Known to top 170MPH! Transmission: Belt-drive. Centrifugal clutch with Castor-oil hydraulic semi-automatic gear-changing system - Spagthorpe Half Integral Transmission system (S.H.I.T.) Passengers: Two, plus rider. Seperate, heated seats are provided. Tyres: Avlop: A Stickwell on the rear and a Gripright on the front. Electrics: The Yorkie was the first Spagthorpe to feature the famous SWEAT system. (Spagthorpe Wireless ElectricAl Transmission). The Magneto's output was transmitted through a special aerial and devices requiring electricity used the Spagthorpe Condenser Aerial Receiver crYstal systems (SCARY) for their feed. The riders had to ensure that they wore no metal as the induced current could cause severe local heat problems. Engine: The Yorkie used a contra-rotating pair of rotary engines, turning in a bath of castor oil. Sparking plugs were connected to the ignition system by means of contacts on the inside of the motor housing whenever the rotary engine was in the correct position in its cycle, thus eliminating the need for a distributor, timing system and HT leads and sparking plug caps. The whole motor was supercharged by an early version of the supercharger used later on by Rolls Royce for the Merlin engine used in Spitfires, Lancasters, etc. The engine was robust enough to use all manner of fuel types but castor oil had to be added to the fuel to lubricate the rotating pistons, con-rods and bearings. Chassis: The frame was made from a single tube, about two foot in diameter. Various sections were cut out to allow the rider, wheels and engine unit to be accommodated. This system is unique and made the whole machine resemble a "Flash Gordon" type of rocket. Suspension: Reverse Earles-Fork, as pioneered by the Spagthorpe Greyhound series. Braking caused the front-end to rise and thus put more pressure on the rear and allowing the rear brake to be more effective. Discontinued shortly afterwards due in no small way to the outcome of the famous Lord Davenport crash inquiry when he sued the Spagthorpe Company after flipping his Greyhound completely over during a spot of emergency breaking. Carburation: Anal Gasper, two and a half inch bore with exterior jets. Side tickler and float chamber glass were optional. As I said before, the diagrams and pictures are now unreadable. Sorry -- Nick (the Histerical Biker) DoD 1069 Concise Oxford Cricket Bats M'Lud. 0) \ []\_ \ ___[}__/-] /----\\ =/\_ OO00oo...=/_\_#|[_]/\\ \_________\_/______\_/________________________________________________________/ Like so many Americans, she was trying | Nick Pettefar, Contractor@Large. to construct a life that made sense | Currently incarcerated at BNR, from things she found in gift shops. | Maidenhead, The United Kingdom. -- Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. | '86 BMW K100RS "Kay" \________________________________________|____________________________________/ All opinions expressed by the entity Nick Pettefar are just that, his opinions. The fool upon the stage is having his hour, dust awaits... \_____________________________________________________________________________/ From emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!stanford.edu!nntp.Stanford.EDU!gondwana.Stanford.EDU!karish Mon Mar 1 13:16:05 1993 Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Path: emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!stanford.edu!nntp.Stanford.EDU!gondwana.Stanford.EDU!karish From: karish@gondwana.Stanford.EDU (Chuck Karish) Subject: Re: Gyroscopic stability Message-ID: <1993Feb28.080854.6143@leland.Stanford.EDU> Summary: magnetic containment, curved space Sender: news@leland.Stanford.EDU (Mr News) Organization: Mindcraft, Inc. References: <1993Feb23.122128.14961@elektro.cmhnet.org> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 93 08:08:54 GMT Lines: 54 In article <1993Feb23.122128.14961@elektro.cmhnet.org> charlie@elektro.cmhnet.org (Charlie Smith) writes: >Earlier, Irwin Arnstein recollected: >> >> When they added the nuclear reactor it was renamned the Spagthorpe >> Airdale. Unfortunately the test rider died from radiation burns because >> the Indian seat lacked lead sheilding. > >But wasn't that one of the design trade offs? I understood the Airdale >used the brehmstralung (sp?) radiation piped through fiber optics to Brehmstrallung, I think. >augment the headlight illumination. As I recall, the major difficulty >experienced was that, of course, the wavelength of the brehmstralung >radiation resulted in blue light. That's Cerenkov radiation. Brehmstrallung produces a tunable spectrum. The wavelength depends on the energy of the particles being accelerated and the radius of the curve through their beam is being bent. While the jury's still out on the effects the accelerator's magnetic field had on the rider, the effect on the steel and cast iron structure of the Spagthorpe Airedale was immediate and dramatic. To say nothing of the effect a very bright beam of hard X-rays had on the eyes of the oncoming motorists! Consequently, other motorists got >a bad case of cruiseritis and drove 2 MPH under the speed limit, resulting >in hopelessly blocked roads. The resultant effects of this are still >seen today around the central London area! > >Also, it should be remembered that the Lord Julian G. Spagthorpe's guidance >to his designers was that the rider should be regarded as mature enough to >assess his own risks in doing things such as riding motorcycles. Along with >Lord Julian's continued campaign, together with MAG, against attempts to put >helmet laws into effect, Lord Julian believed that riders of the Airdale >would understand their own exposure to risk, along with exposure to radiation, >and would wear lead lined shorts if they deemed them necessary. I understand >that a pair of one-size-fits-all lead lined shorts covers - with velcro >attachments - were included in the factory supplied toolkit with the Airdale. > > >Charlie Smith charlie@elektro.cmhnet.org KotdohL KotWitDoDL 1KSPI=22.85 > DoD #0709 doh #0000000004 & AMA, MOA, RA, Buckey Beemers, BK Ohio V > BMW K1100-LT, R80-GS/PD, R27, Triumph TR6 > Columbus, Ohio USA > > -- Chuck Karish karish@mindcraft.com (415) 323-9000 x117 karish@pangea.stanford.edu From emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!gatech!asuvax!ncar!ncar.ucar.edu!jsloan Wed Mar 3 13:36:57 1993 Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Path: emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!gatech!asuvax!ncar!ncar.ucar.edu!jsloan From: jsloan@ncar.ucar.edu (John Sloan) Subject: Spagthorpe Shepherd Message-ID: <1993Feb25.150904.6496@ncar.ucar.edu> Sender: news@ncar.ucar.edu (USENET Maintenance) Reply-To: jsloan@ncar.ucar.edu (John Sloan) Organization: Scientific Computing Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1993 15:09:04 GMT Lines: 101 Last Saturday some of the Colorado Denizenry got together at Coopersmith's microbrewery in Fort Collins. As occasionally happens, the topic of motorcycles came up, and we started discussing the Spagthorpe Shepherd. This, as you may recall, was the police bike that was briefly considered by the LAPD back in the late '40s before losing out to the Harley FLH-based cop bike. What is generally not well known is that after they lost the competitive evaluation with the LAPD, some of the original Shepherds ended up in the hands of the Hollywood studios, where they appeared in several films. The beautifully restored K-9s (as they were affectionately known at the time) were frequently called upon to serve in movies of the 50's, 60's and 70's. Just recently I found myself watching the classic John Wayne 1954 action film _Their Blood Ran Red_ (*** in Maltin's book) on the AMC cable channel, in which the Duke was typically miscast (IMHO) as Marion McMorrison, a Scottish-born motorcycle courier for the British Army during WWII. I was delighted to recognize a '49 Shepherd repainted olive drab and serving as the Duke's courier bike (somewhat anachronistically I might add... a '44 Spagthorpe War Mastif, which briefly saw service on the European front during the second world war, would have been more apropos, but I'm not sure any of that vintage survived intact even in 1954). If you've seen the movie, you may recall the particular scene where the Duke is a motorcycle courier for the Allies behind enemy lines in France, riding alone at night in blackout conditions. Without a headlight to guide him, and riding at high speeds (carrying defense plans concerning the Maginot Line), he was navigating the twisty rutted dirt roads of the rural countryside mostly by dead reckoning. The climax to the scene occurs when the Duke races across a narrow bridge completely unaware that there is a British Leopard-class tank, also blacked out, entering the bridge from the opposite side. The sound of the tank drowned out by the engine of the Spagthorpe, the first clue that McMorrison has that something is amiss is the sudden vision of a huge armored vehicle looming out of the darkness just a few feet away as he rocketed towards it at more than 40MPH across the narrow bridge, with no possible escape route. SPOILERS!!! Just before impact, the POV switches to inside the tank, where the British crew can hear the motorcycle coming at them, and immediately realizing what is about to occur, they frantically try to open the top hatch so that they can try to warn the rider. This is interrupted by a tremendous, deafening crash (off screen), and the tank crew have this sick look on their faces as the multi-ton vehicle rocks back and forth on its tracks and idler wheels. They open the top hatch, only to find Wayne standing on the turret, shouting down to them in a some facsimile of a Scottish brogue/western drawl: "Is everyone all right down there?!?!?!" Well, maybe you had to see the whole movie. But it was a good portrayal of the typical pluckishness of the military motorcycle couriers, some of which did in fact ride Spagthorpe War Mastifs during the close of the war. Another use of a restored Shepherd, this time properly liveried as a police bike, occurred in the Elvis Presley's only film noir movie, the 1959 _Dark Gumshoe_, in which the King plays a private detective, with a young Mary Tyler Moore playing a female motorcycle cop and serving as love interest. A little known fact is that Presley purchased the Spagthorpe used in the film from the studio upon completion of the movie, and it remained in his extensive motorcycle collection until his death, at which time its whereabouts became unknown. This is a much sought after collector's piece, now, and its value is virtually uncalculatable. Rumor has it Presley would disguise himself as a motorcycle policeman and ride the Shepherd off his Graceland estate and patrol the town of Memphis in cognito, often delighting young women with an autograph after pulling them over. A more recent appearance of a Spagthorpe Shepherd, this time in mufti (beautiful British Racing Green with gold pinstripes), was on the movie poster for the 1968 Steve McQueen film _Graveyard Ponies_. If you've seen the film, you know that McQueen rode a Norton, but apparently the artist for the poster thought this was too tame, and substituted the Spagthorpe, probably working solely from photographs from the studio archive. By the way, this showed up as a question in the motorcycle edition of Trivial Pursuit: "Movie posters for GRAVEYARD PONIES showed Steve McQueen riding what famous British motorcycle?" You have no excuse for missing it now. I haven't seen any of the Shepherds in any film dated after 1971. Just this past year I wrote several Hollywood studios, as well as LA prop supply houses, trying to trace whatever happened to the Spagthorpes, with no luck. They could be sitting in a dusty warehouse, somehow lost on the inventory sheet. They could have been scrapped. Or they could be in possession of a private collector. My wife and I took the back lot tour at the Disney-MGM Studios in Orlando this past summer, in the vain hope of spotting a Spag. We saw a lot of neat things (including one of of the "spinner" flying cars from the movie _Bladerunner_), but those classic Spagthorpe Shepherds, darlings of the silver screen, where no where to be found. -- John Sloan "Since I've given up hope, +1 303 497 1243 NCAR/SCD I feel much better." Fax +1 303 497 1137 Boulder CO 80307-3000 USA jsloan@ncar.ucar.edu Logical Disclaimer: belong(opinions,jsloan). belong(opinions,_):-!,fail. From emory!wupost!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!mimsy!leavitt Fri Mar 5 13:22:43 1993 Path: emory!wupost!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!mimsy!leavitt From: leavitt@cs.umd.edu (Mr. Bill) Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Spagthorpe Airdale (was Re: Gyroscopic stability) Message-ID: <64664@mimsy.umd.edu> Date: 1 Mar 93 03:26:16 GMT References: <1993Feb23.122128.14961@elektro.cmhnet.org> <1993Feb28.080854.6143@leland.Stanford.EDU> Sender: news@mimsy.umd.edu Organization: The Cafe at the Edge of the Universe Lines: 66 Earlier, Irwin Arnstein recollected: IA> When they added the nuclear reactor it was renamned the Spagthorpe IA> Airdale. Unfortunately the test rider died from radiation burns because IA> the Indian seat lacked lead sheilding. charlie@elektro.cmhnet.org (Charlie Smith) writes: CS>But wasn't that one of the design trade offs? I understood the Airdale CS>used the brehmstralung (sp?) radiation piped through fiber optics to karish@gondwana.Stanford.EDU (Chuck Karish) replies: CK> Brehmstrallung, I think. Gosh, you guys don't have a spell checker decent enough to include bremsstrahlung? Oye!! CS>augment the headlight illumination. As I recall, the major difficulty CS>experienced was that, of course, the wavelength of the brehmstralung CS>radiation resulted in blue light. CK>That's Cerenkov radiation. I've observed bremsstrahlung radiation on a photographic plate exhibiting a blue wavelength not unlike that of cerenkov radiation. It may have been a property of the plate itself, of course. CK>Brehmstrallung produces a tunable CK>spectrum. The wavelength depends on the energy of the particles CK>being accelerated and the radius of the curve through their beam CK>is being bent. While the jury's still out on the effects the CK>accelerator's magnetic field had on the rider, the Bremsstrahlung radiation is rather directionally dependent, and depending upon the efficiency of the "gamma hose" that Lord Julian employed and the location of the bremsstrahlung target material, this radiation would have caused the rider relatively little concern. It was the primary reactor that caused the problems with the Airdale's development. Of course, my interpretation of the treatise on the Airdale was that Lord Julian utilized the fiber optics originally to pick off cerenkov radiation from the core to pipe forward for headlight illumination. Of course, nobody at the time knew that neutron radiation would cause darkening of the optics, causing the headlight to become dim and useless after but a few month's usage. [aside: A young engineer named Lucas worked awhile on this project, and he thought this was precisely the way the system should have worked, but with standard electrical circuitry. He was subsequently sacked by Lord Julian himself shortly thereafter.] The trade-off mentioned in the treatise, along with limited lead shielding, was that Lord Julian wanted to add a separate small electron accelerator to produce the bremsstrahlung radiation for the headlamp, but due to weight concerns and cost overruns, the idea was shelved indefinitely. CS>Lord Julian believed that riders of the Airdale would understand CS>their own exposure to risk, along with exposure to radiation, and CS>and would wear lead lined shorts if they deemed them necessary. For the US import model, the federal Department of Transportation was to require a copy of 10 CFR 20, Standards for Protection Against Radiation, to be included with the owner's manual of all Airdales. Bloody killjoys! Mr. Bill -- + Bill Leavitt, #224 + '82 CBX "White Lightning", '82 GS850G "Suzibago" + + leavitt@cs.umd.edu + '76 CJ360 "Little Honda", '68 Lone Star "Sick Leave" + + DoD AMA ICOA NIA + '69 Impala convertible "The Incredible Hulk", others + + "Hmmm, I thought bore and stroke *was* the technique!" Michael Bain, #757 + From emory!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uunet!ftpbox!mothost!white!rtsg.mot.com!svoboda Mon Mar 8 13:16:15 1993 Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Path: emory!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uunet!ftpbox!mothost!white!rtsg.mot.com!svoboda From: svoboda@rtsg.mot.com (David Svoboda) Subject: Re: Your experience with Ducati .... Message-ID: <1993Mar7.203043.4254@rtsg.mot.com> Sender: news@rtsg.mot.com Nntp-Posting-Host: guppie44 Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group References: <1n7ug7INNk6v@dns1.NMSU.Edu> Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1993 20:30:43 GMT Lines: 42 In article <1n7ug7INNk6v@dns1.NMSU.Edu> mcrider@acca.nmsu.edu (Mcrider) writes: | |Was it quirky? Absolutely! I was probably the only person in the |world who somehow just *knew* how to start the little beast. The |rear wheel spokes needed constant tuning due to the lack of a rear |suspension. I won't even discuss the vibration or the bizarre |electrical system that I suspected was designed by Nicola Tesla. Now, watch it there. Don't be badmouthing NT's ability to produce workable motorcycle electrical systems, when you obviously don't know the first thing about it. In fact, Nikola Tesla did have a project relating to MC electicals, in the form of a brief collabaration between the inventor and a young Julian Spagthorpe on an early prototype of the Spagthorpe Sheltie scooter, first built in 1903. In addition to the rotarian valves, and the unique fuel delivery system on it's five-and-a-half cylinder methane-burning engine (the system took advantage of the fact that motor vehicles shared the road with many horses--it was called "Scoopercharging"), the Sheltie had no on-board electrical system whatsoever. Instead, the battery, coils, condensers, and wiring was all contained in a unit which stayed home, and the carefully modulated and times signals were beamed to the motorcycle by the way of a large superstructure in the back yard (first prototyped at Wardenclyff, Long Island) and a unique toroidal antenna mounted on the back of the cycle. When at full throttle, the antenna would emanate an eerie blue glow which streamed backwards from the speeding cycle, scaring the horses and providing a richer fuel mixture. The Sheltie was never put into full-scale production due to range problems, and the fact that the antenna would tend to arc to ground when at full lean, causing the motor to misfire, which made quite a mess. Also, as the automobile became more popular, it became obvious that a fuel tank would have to be fitted, and the methane burning motor replaced with a more mundane fuel system. This proved disasterous in combination with the resonant discharge of the antenna. The project was dropped in 1907. Excerpted from the coffee-table book "The Middlin-Sizeable Book of Spagthorpe". Dave Svoboda (svoboda@void.rtsg.mot.com) | "I just can't take 90 Concours 1000 (Mmmmmmmmmm!) | this weird shit 84 RZ 350 (Ring Ding) (Woops!) | before breakfast!" AMA 583905 DoD #0330 COG 939 (Chicago) | -- Evo Woman From emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!vtserf!joesbar.cc.vt.edu!ranck Mon Mar 22 12:37:03 1993 Path: emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!vtserf!joesbar.cc.vt.edu!ranck From: ranck@joesbar.cc.vt.edu (Wm. L. Ranck) Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: Rejetting Message-ID: <12500@vtserf.cc.vt.edu> Date: 18 Mar 93 01:10:53 GMT References: <1993Mar11.055402.7082@elektro.cmhnet.org> Sender: usenet@vtserf.cc.vt.edu Lines: 17 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6] Charlie Smith (charlie@elektro.cmhnet.org) wrote: : > : >Anyhow, this genre is particularly appropriate for the Spagthorpe thread. : : Uhhh! You mean, really mean, that Spagthorpe made an AIRPLANE? Well, not exactly an airplane. There was that Spagthorpe Engineering contract with the British government in the mid-1960s to develop a reusable space shuttle type vehichle. Project Sirius it was called. I'll have to do some research on the details. I think it incorporated a sodium bicarbonate / water injection system for reaction thrusters. -- ******************************************************************************* * Bill Ranck ranck@joesbar.cc.vt.edu * * Computing Center at Virginia Tech, not Vermont ----------------------^^ * ******************************************************************************* From emory!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!news.tek.com!shaman!shotgun.TEKTRONIX.COM!robd Wed Mar 24 14:21:46 1993 Path: emory!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!news.tek.com!shaman!shotgun.TEKTRONIX.COM!robd From: robd@spagthorpe.archive.com Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: insect impacts Message-ID: <2943@shaman.wv.tek.com> Date: 23 Mar 93 20:39:01 GMT References: Sender: news@shaman.wv.tek.com Reply-To: robd@orca.wv.tek.com Organization: Spagthorpe Historical Society Lines: 22 In article , prange@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Henry Prange) writes: > Subject: insect impacts > Now, all this made me wonder, among those of you who ride without helmets, or > worse, without eye protection, how do you deal with impacts? I am always > amazed to see someone cruising down the road, shirtless, helmetless, goggleless You're observation regarding proper eye protection during operation of the motocycle brings back a tragic memory. It was in the fall of 1942 in Worchestershire. Sir Alec Spagthorpe, while on a high speed return trip from gathering intelligence information regarding the new pulsed liquid fueled BOMARC, was motoring on his Spagthorpe Dalmation(in pre-war camo) when he was struck by a large Highland Beetle traveling in the opposite direction. As was his custom, Sir Alec was wearing only the customary leather flight helmet and no goggles. The Highland Beetle was driven squarely through Sir Alecs left eye, penetrating his brain and killing him instantly. Unfortunately, inertia carried Sir Alec for a full kilometer past the point of impact, where he and his Dalmation became as one upon impacting a Morris Minor parked in the driveway of one Miss Margaret Donaldson, thus continuing the tragic curse of the name Spagthorpe. From emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!mcdchg!laidbak!jeq Tue Mar 30 13:24:20 1993 Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Path: emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!mcdchg!laidbak!jeq From: jeq@lachman.com (Jonathan E. Quist) Subject: Re: 90 degree V-Twins Message-ID: <1993Mar26.155901.15614@i88.isc.com> Sender: usenet@i88.isc.com (Usenet News) Nntp-Posting-Host: birdie.i88.isc.com Organization: Lachman Technology, Incorporated, Naperville, IL References: <1993Mar25.130231.24905@ncsa.uiuc.edu> <733079677snz@morgan.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1993 15:59:01 GMT Lines: 36 In article <733079677snz@morgan.demon.co.uk> tony@morgan.demon.co.uk writes: >In article <1993Mar25.130231.24905@ncsa.uiuc.edu> heathman@ncsa.uiuc.edu writes: > >> OK, I know it's bad form to post something that is anything more than >>tangentially related to motorcycles on rec.moto, but I have a question. >> In magazine articles etc., I have always heard that a 90 degree V-twin >>has perfect primary balance. This does not make sense to me. On a Ducati, >>for example, you have one piston reciprocating vertically and another >>horizontally. How can the horizontal piston cancel the imbalance of the >>vertical piston? Any coherent explanation would be appreciated. > >Well, its the counterbalance weights on the crankshaft. In a vertical engine, >you can perfectly balance the reciprocating mass of the piston/con-rod only >at the expense of introducing an equal horizontal out of balance. (the >vertical component is balances by the piston, but the horizontal component as >the weights go across is out of balance.) If you add a second piston in a >plane at right angles to the first, it balances the horizontal shake induced >by making the crankshaft balance weights big enough to counter the vertical >shake caused by the vertical piston. Is that clear? Okay, what about a vertical twin? (Actually, "inline twin" - whether it's vertical, horizontal, or implosional doesn't really matter.) If you time the pistons 180 degrees apart, then you just have a rocking couple to deal with. (Of course, the firing now becomes assymetrical....) How about an inline triple, with the center piston sized to have twice the mass of the outer two? (And then, of course, there's the Spagthorpe C-Twin - two concentric cylinders of equal mass and displacement. The outer cylinder had dual connecting rods, and inner rings that were a bitch to change.) -- Jonathan E. Quist jeq@lachman.com Lachman Technology, Incorporated DoD #094, KotPP '71 CL450-K4 "Gleep" Naperville, IL __ There's nothing quite like the pitter-patter of little feet, \/ followed by the words "Daddy! Yay!" From emory!wupost!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!bmdhh130!npet Tue Mar 30 13:25:04 1993 Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Path: emory!wupost!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!bmdhh130!npet From: npet@bnr.ca (Nick Pettefar) Subject: Re: 90 degree V-Twins Message-ID: <1993Mar30.141507.18991@bnr.ca> Sender: news@bnr.ca (News Administrator) Nntp-Posting-Host: bmdhh27 Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, Maidenhead, UK X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] References: <1993Mar26.155901.15614@i88.isc.com> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1993 14:15:07 GMT Lines: 47 Jonathan E. Quist, on the Fri, 26 Mar 1993 15:59:01 GMT wibbled: : (And then, of course, there's the Spagthorpe C-Twin - two concentric : cylinders of equal mass and displacement. The outer cylinder had dual : connecting rods, and inner rings that were a bitch to change.) There was, of course, the Spagthorpe Wrestler engine, which was a horizontally opposed twin having no crankshaft and a single rod connecting the two pistons. Teeth on the top and bottom of this rod drove gears which transmitted the motions to the gearbox:- /~\ .____ \_/ ____. | vvvvvvvvvvvvv | | 0==================================o | |____ vvvvvvvvvvvvv ____| /~\ \_/ The pistons were lead weighted to provide sufficient momentum to complete the complex Three-And-A-Half-With-A-Wiggly-Bit-Thrown-In-For -Good-Measure stroke system that was the masterstroke behind this engine. The only drawback to this design was that occasionally the engine revs would match the sympathetic resonance of the machine (strict luggage loading instructions had to be adhered to for warranty purposes) and the bike would disintegrate spectacularly in an explosion of motorbike and human parts. If you were strong and agile enough, you could disperse the standing waves and prevent this unfortunate incident. Hence the name Wrestler. -- Nick (the Agile and Strong Biker) DoD 1069 Concise Oxford Pistons M'Lud. ___ ___ ___ ___ {"_"} {"_"} {"_"} {"_"} Nick Pettefar, Contractor@Large. ' ` ` ' ' ` ` ' Currently incarcerated at BNR, ___ ___ ___ ___ Maidenhead, The United Kingdom. |"_"| |"_"| |"_"| |"_"| npet@bnr.ca '86 BMW K100RS "Kay" ` ' ' ` ` ' ' ` Pres. PBWASOH(UK), BS 0002 . _ _ _ __ . / ~ ~~\ | / ~~ \ |_______| [_______| _:_ |___| From emory!darwin.sura.net!aurora.LaTech.edu!bhm116e-spc.engr.LaTech.edu!speedy Tue Mar 30 13:28:05 1993 Path: emory!darwin.sura.net!aurora.LaTech.edu!bhm116e-spc.engr.LaTech.edu!speedy From: speedy@engr.latech.edu (Speedy Mercer) Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: Replacing 85mph speedo? Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1993 15:03:09 GMT Organization: Louisiana Tech University Lines: 30 Message-ID: References: <1993Mar27.000206.14572@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: bhm116e-spc.engr.latech.edu In article <1993Mar27.000206.14572@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jhensley@nyx.cs.du.edu (John Hensley) writes: >stuff deleted< >this thing will go, but I'm guessing it'd do at least 130 -- anyone know >for sure? >Thanks a lot, >jhensley@nyx.cs.du.edu The following is a formula I use to calculate the speed of a cage/bike that is capable of out running it's speedo: R.P.M. X T.D. -------------- = M.P.H. G.R. X 336 where T.D. = the Tire Diameter of the driving tire and G.R. = the Final Gear Ratio (Transmission ratio X "rear end" ratio). Example: If my Spagthorpe Wolverine with the optional 45" diamater rear tire and the .45 to 1 seven speed transmission with the 9.45 to 1 planetary rear drive, at 5000 R.P.M. I would be going 157.47 M.P.H.. 5000 X 45 ------------------ = 157.47 (.45 X 9.45) X 336 Dr. Speed --------======= I am not paid to have an opinion! =======-------- From emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!mcdchg!laidbak!jeq Tue Mar 30 13:28:17 1993 Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Path: emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!mcdchg!laidbak!jeq From: jeq@lachman.com (Jonathan E. Quist) Subject: Re: Replacing 85mph speedo? Message-ID: <1993Mar29.191900.27095@i88.isc.com> Sender: usenet@i88.isc.com (Usenet News) Nntp-Posting-Host: birdie.i88.isc.com Organization: Lachman Technology, Incorporated, Naperville, IL References: <1993Mar27.000206.14572@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1993 19:19:00 GMT Lines: 13 In article speedy@engr.latech.edu (Speedy Mercer) writes: >Example: If my Spagthorpe Wolverine with the optional 45" diamater rear > tire and the .45 to 1 seven speed transmission with the 9.45 to > 1 planetary rear drive, at 5000 R.P.M. I would be going 157.47 > M.P.H.. ... Is that above ground, or with burrowing mode engaged? -- Jonathan E. Quist jeq@lachman.com Lachman Technology, Incorporated DoD #094, KotPP, KotCF '71 CL450-K4 "Gleep" Naperville, IL __ There's nothing quite like the pitter-patter of little feet, \/ followed by the words "Daddy! Yay!" From emory!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!sun-barr!decwrl!waikato.ac.nz!mwoodd Thu Apr 8 13:31:30 1993 Path: emory!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!sun-barr!decwrl!waikato.ac.nz!mwoodd From: mwoodd@waikato.ac.nz Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Re: Countersteering_FAQ please post Message-ID: <1993Apr8.172719.15361@waikato.ac.nz> Date: 8 Apr 93 17:27:19 +1200 References: <05APR93.02678944.0049@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA> <1993Apr7.164814.14012@Newbridge.COM> <08APR93.02259073.0035@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA> Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand Lines: 34 In article <08APR93.02259073.0035@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA>, C70A000 writes: > In article <1993Apr7.164814.14012@Newbridge.COM> bradw@Newbridge.COM (Brad Warkentin) writes: >>C70A000 [who needsa a name when a number will do] writes: >>> Eric@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (93CBR900RR) writes: >>>>Would someone please post the countersteering FAQ...i am having this awful >>>>time debating with someone on why i push the right handle of my motorcycle >>>>foward when i am turning left...and i can't explain (well at least) why this >>>>happens...please help...post the faq...i need to convert him. >>> >>> Ummm, if you push on the right handle of your bike while at speed and >>>your bike turns left, methinks your bike has a problem. When I do it >>>on MY bike, I turn right. No wonder you need that FAQ. If I had it >>>I'd send it. >> >>Gasp... could it be... [quick review of the facts... push right, turn left] >>yup it must be... the rare and infinately collectable Spagthorpe QX17 (never >>was given a proper name as they never got out of the experimental stage. God >>knows they tried, what with 17 prototypes before abandoning the idea) with the >>unique double linked reversed steering, for those who wanted bikes to steer >>like cars damnit.... > > Quite an innovative company, this Spagthorpe marque. I heard a > rumour that they combined the QX17 with a hub steering forked rear end. > With practice, you could do donuts while driving down the highway as > long as you didn't get dizzy... This is correct, and with practise, you could ride at close to 200 km/h backwards - they worked hard on developing special mirrors to give a wide field of view. Aren't they supposed to have developed the first ride-by-wire control system? Mike Woodd (mwoodd@sol.cs.waikato.ac.nz) From emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!van-bc!questor!compdyn!ryan_cousineau Wed Apr 21 13:37:12 1993 Path: emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!van-bc!questor!compdyn!ryan_cousineau From: ryan_cousineau@compdyn.questor.org (Ryan Cousineau) Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Subject: Spagthorpe Viking Message-ID: <10499.97.uupcb@compdyn.questor.org> Date: 19 Apr 93 19:04:00 GMT Reply-To: ryan_cousineau@compdyn.questor.org (Ryan Cousineau) Distribution: world Organization: Computer Dynamics-Vancouver B.C.-(604)986-9937 (604)255-9937 Lines: 103 DS>From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) DS>ryan_cousineau@compdyn.questor.org (Ryan Cousineau) writes: DS>>Riding up the hill leading to my DS>>house, I encountered a liver-and-white Springer Spaniel (no relation to DS>>the Springer Softail, or the Springer Spagthorpe, a close relation to DS>>the Spagthorpe Viking). DS> I must have missed the article on the Spagthorpe Viking. Was DS>that the one with the little illuminated Dragon's Head on the front DS>fender, a style later copied by Indian, and the round side covers? No. Not at all. The Viking was a trick little unit made way back when (forties? fifties?) when Spag was trying to make a go of it in racing. The first iteration (the Springer) was a boxer twin, very similar to Max Friz's famous design, but with an overhead "point cam" (see below for more on the valvetrain). The problem was that the thing had no ground clearance whatsoever. The solution was to curve the cylinder bores, so that the ground clearance was substantially increased: ==@== <-Springer motor (front) Viking motor (front) -> \=@=/ This is roughly the idea, except that the bores were gradually curved around a radius, as the pistons were loath to make a sharp-angled turn in the middle of their stroke. The engine also had curved connecting rods to accomodate the stroke. The engine stuck out so far because of its revolutionary (and still unique) overhead cam system. Through the use of clever valve timing and and extrordinarily trick valve linkage, only a single cam lobe was required to drive both overhead valves. Just as revolutionary was the hydraulic valve actuation, which used a pressurized stream of oil to power the "waterwheel" which kept the lobe spinning over. One side effect that required some rather brutal engineering fixes was that until the engine's oil pressure came up to normal, the engine's valve timing would be more or less random, resulting in some impressive start-up valve damage. The solution was a little hand crank that pressurized the cases before you started the beast, remarkably similar to the system used in new Porsches to pressurize the oil system before the car is started (the cage, however, uses an electric oil pump. Wimps). Despite this fix, the engine had a nasty propensity for explosively firing its valves into the pistons when a cylinder would temporarily lose a bit of oil pressure in a corner. The solution was to run even higher oil pressures and change the gaskets and seals regularly. This was feasible because it was a racing engine. With just a single overhead lobe, and no pushrod/shaft/chain towers because of the hydraulic system, the head of the engine came to an almost perfect point: /\ /()\ <-lobe / XX \ <-complex linkage (not shown due to valvestems -> / \ / \ complexity) | | | | | |===| | =0= <---piston | Note that the tip was not truly vertical (it was at about a 70 degree angle to the ground, and this drawing doesn't show the curvature because there was none in the head itself. The bore curve would start about where the cylinder bore disappears in this diagram The effect of the pointy heads on top of a pair of gently (pundits of the day even said sensuously) curved cylinders was much like a pair of finned Viking horns poking out from beneath the gas tank. Thus, the name. The Vik was a moderately successful racer, lightning fast when it worked, but plagued by problems relating to its revolutionary technology. Eventually, it was dumped when Spag finally realized that racing was not where the Spagthorpe name would be made. The machines were raced for another year or two by privateers, and their fate (approximately six Vikings were made, plus one or possibly two Springers. Confusing the issue is one old Spag staffer who swears up and down that this machine was tooled for production, and that as many as twenty or thirty machines may have come off the line. However, no modern record of a production Viking has survived, and most motorcycle historians discount this story. Ryan Cousinetc.|1982 Yamaha Vision XZ550 -Black Pig of Inverness|Live to Ride KotRB |1958 AJS 500 C/S -King Rat |to Work to DoD# 0863 |I'd be a squid if I could afford the bike... |Flame to ryan.cousineau@compdyn.questor.org | Vancouver, BC, Canada |Live . . . * SLMR 2.1a * If you aren't sliding, you aren't riding. ---- +===============================================================+ |COMPUTER DYNAMICS BBS 604-255-9937(HST) 604-986-9937(V32)| |Vancouver, BC, Canada - Easy Access, Low Rates, Friendly Sysop| +===============================================================+ From emory!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!csc.ti.com!tilde.csc.ti.com!m2.dseg.ti.com!ernest!cmptrc!irwin Tue Apr 27 12:50:50 1993 Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Path: emory!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!csc.ti.com!tilde.csc.ti.com!m2.dseg.ti.com!ernest!cmptrc!irwin From: irwin@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Irwin Arnstein) Subject: Re: Dogs vs. Bikes Message-ID: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 16:00:32 GMT References: <1834@ncrclm.ClemsonSC.NCR.COM> Organization: CompuTrac Inc., Richardson TX Lines: 12 Of course the Spagthorpe Airdale (the nueclear powered job) was never chased by any member of the K-9 set. Turns out that when the bike came down the road most dogs began howling, drooling, foaming, and running around in circles yapping. The bike is still outlawed in most nueclear free countries... -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Tuba" (Irwin) "I honk therefore I am" CompuTrac-Richardson,Tx irwin@cmptrc.lonestar.org DoD #0826 (R75/6) (Ducati 900GTS) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!gatech!usenet.ufl.edu!eng.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!torn!uunet.ca!ohrd!jlevine Tue Apr 27 13:32:16 1993 Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles Path: emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!gatech!usenet.ufl.edu!eng.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!torn!uunet.ca!ohrd!jlevine From: jlevine@rd.hydro.on.ca (Jody Levine) Subject: Re: Zeno's Countersteering Paradox Unveiled!!! Message-ID: <1993Apr26.191426.1905@rd.hydro.on.ca> Organization: Ontario Hydro - Research Division References: <1993Apr26.002631.1@acfcluster.nyu.edu> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 93 19:14:26 GMT Lines: 30 In article Stafford@Vax2.Winona.MSUS.Edu (John Stafford) writes: >In article <1993Apr26.002631.1@acfcluster.nyu.edu>, >mullignj@acfcluster.nyu.edu wrote: >> >>[...] Therefore, there is a point >> in time when even though my front wheel is turned to the right >> I must be going straight ahead (the point when I go from the right >> turn to the left). [...] > > What you are trying to describe is that transition point where > the front wheel actually reverses direction; turns backwards. The thing is, not all bikes can do it. This was one of the innovations of the Spagthorpe Poodle which used this new type of braking system that didn't need rotors or drums. It was very light, and so effective in scrubbing off speed that Julian's cousin Nigel, who enjoyed braking late into corners, was going to campaign a modified Poodle in the Isle of Man TT. This was to be the world debut of the new brakes, and rumours surrounding the racing prototype said that Nigel and his Poodle were a shoo-in for the podium. Disaster struck a week before the race when Nigel upended the bike while demonstrating his famous "stop on a farthing" manoeuvre at the edge of the cliffs of Dover. He went over the handlebars and plunged into the sea, never to be seen again. Some say that he lived and is now working as a part time consultant for Ducati, and that he has changed his riding style significantly. The new brakes never appeared on a production model. I've bike like | Jody Levine DoD #275 kV got a you can if you -PF | Jody.P.Levine@hydro.on.ca ride it | Toronto, Ontario, Canada Mike Mitten - gnome@pd.org - AMA#675197 - DoD#522 Irony is the spice of life. '90 Bianchi Backstreet '82 Suzuki GS850GL Straight but not narrow "The revolution will not be televised."